Class 350/1 refurbishment

[LOL The Irony]

although a poster further up suggested some Aventras will be 2+3 as well as some 2+2.
So whether these will be separated so they are dedicated to certain routes to keep say Trent Valley services 2+2 based who knows?

I believe that the 3+2 Aventra's will replace the 323's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe that the 3+2 Aventra's will replace the 323's.

No, the CAF EMUs will replace those (sorry, other Aventras, not CAF!). The 3+2 Aventras are for the south WCML, but they rather made a mess of that by merging services across Brum. I'm almost certain the original idea was 2+2 for Liverpool-Brum and faster south WCML services, and 3+2 for south WCML only. Oops.

Might work if they create self contained diagrams for MKC and Tring stoppers. That to be fair would be a good idea in reliability terms - at least something on the south WCML would occasionally be on time.

 

[sprinterguy]

I believe that the 3+2 Aventra's will replace the 323's.

No, that's a separate fleet:

There's 36 3-car Aventras being procured for class 323 replacement on the Cross-City line.
There's 45 5-car Aventras being procured to replace the class 350/2s on the WCML, 29 of which will have "Outer suburban" 3+2 seating as stated by TH172341 on the previous page.

No, the CAF EMUs will replace those.

All of West Midlands Trains' new EMUs are Bombardier Aventras: Class 730/0 for the 3-car Cross-City units, class 730/1 and 730/2 for the 5-car WCML Outer Suburban and Regional units respectively.

CAF are only providing the new diesel units that will replace the 170s in the West Midlands.

I'm almost certain the original idea was 2+2 for Liverpool-Brum and faster south WCML services, and 3+2 for south WCML only. Oops.

That certainly seems likely to have been the case! It's a pity that a uniform 2+2 seated fleet wasn't specified for the WCML units.

 

[Silverlinky]

Has anyone got a current list of refurbished units?

I was on 350110 today, which still retains its Project 110 livery, but has been refurbished internally.

I know 115, 104 and 123 are running round in the white livery, I believe 101 is too, but which of these have had the internal refresh/refurb?

 

[Merle Haggard]

It's obviously not a 350/1 but I travelled on 350369 the other day and it had large oblong display screens on the bulkheads. They just displayed the LNR and WMR logos. Is this new, or have I just not been very observant?

 

[Silverlinky]

It's obviously not a 350/1 but I travelled on 350369 the other day and it had large oblong display screens on the bulkheads. They just displayed the LNR and WMR logos. Is this new, or have I just not been very observant?

369 has the new PIS system with the screens but hasn’t been touched otherwise internally.

401 has been repaired at Kings Heath

 

[sufian123]

Has anyone got a current list of refurbished units?

I was on 350110 today, which still retains its Project 110 livery, but has been refurbished internally.

I know 115, 104 and 123 are running round in the white livery, I believe 101 is too, but which of these have had the internal refresh/refurb?

350106, 350115, 350104 and 350123 does have internal done. Not sure if 350101.

 

[Merle Haggard]

369 has the new PIS system with the screens but hasn’t been touched otherwise internally.

401 has been repaired at Kings Heath

Thank you for the info about '69; after idly staring at the new screen from Coventry to Northampton, I only realised when I got off that it might be unusual.
Does 401 retain the low density seating please? Bearing in mind the difficulty that seems to have been encountered with doing much with the conductor's office in the 350/1s the 350/4s first class might be a problem, because it extends the full length between the doors, with bulkheads (with twin doors) at the doorways - of course, the local 350s all have one bay of standard between the doors and the first at one end, and a single piece door. 2+1 seating and table lamps - it's like err first class, that won't do.

 

[Merle Haggard]

5

350106, 350115, 350104 and 350123 does have internal done. Not sure if 350101.

I travelled on 104 on 2nd Nov (1621 COV-NMP) white exterior but it still had the dowdy old seats. Has it really been done that quickly?

 

[Bletchleyite]

the local 350s all have one bay of standard between the doors and the first at one end, and a single piece door. 2+1 seating and table lamps - it's like err first class, that won't do.

If I were LNR I'd keep it as-is and concentrate them on the Trent Valley (can 5 pairs of units run the whole thing?) making First Class a far better proposition for the money - but I bet they won't.

 

[sufian123]

5


I travelled on 104 on 2nd Nov (1621 COV-NMP) white exterior but it still had the dowdy old seats. Has it really been done that quickly?

Thanks for the update.

 

[BucksBones]

5


I travelled on 104 on 2nd Nov (1621 COV-NMP) white exterior but it still had the dowdy old seats. Has it really been done that quickly?

It's been like that for quite a while, it's had its corrosion repairs and repaint but not the internal refresh as yet.

Thank you for the info about '69; after idly staring at the new screen from Coventry to Northampton, I only realised when I got off that it might be unusual.
Does 401 retain the low density seating please? Bearing in mind the difficulty that seems to have been encountered with doing much with the conductor's office in the 350/1s the 350/4s first class might be a problem, because it extends the full length between the doors, with bulkheads (with twin doors) at the doorways - of course, the local 350s all have one bay of standard between the doors and the first at one end, and a single piece door. 2+1 seating and table lamps - it's like err first class, that won't do.

I'd bet on them doing the absolute bare minimum to the /4s but it would rather show the other 350s up in terms of 1st class!

If I were LNR I'd keep it as-is and concentrate them on the Trent Valley (can 5 pairs of units run the whole thing?) making First Class a far better proposition for the money - but I bet they won't.

The diagrams don't allow for that do they? I'd say they'll keep them as they are and stick them in the common 350 pool so they could end up anywhere. If, down the line, the diagramming is changed they'll probably still be as likely to be found on Tring stoppers as anything else - this is LNR we're talking about after all!

I think they'll really struggle keeping the Aventras on the correct services, if they even bother trying at all.

369 has the new PIS system with the screens but hasn’t been touched otherwise internally.

401 has been repaired at Kings Heath

Not strictly relevant but I wonder if they'll alter the numbering to fit with the concept of being able to identify units by the last 2 digits; 401 ought really to be 478...?

 

[sufian123]

It's been like that for quite a while, it's had its corrosion repairs and repaint but not the internal refresh as yet.



I'd bet on them doing the absolute bare minimum to the /4s but it would rather show the other 350s up in terms of 1st class!



The diagrams don't allow for that do they? I'd say they'll keep them as they are and stick them in the common 350 pool so they could end up anywhere. If, down the line, the diagramming is changed they'll probably still be as likely to be found on Tring stoppers as anything else - this is LNR we're talking about after all!

I think they'll really struggle keeping the Aventras on the correct services, if they even bother trying at all.



Not strictly relevant but I wonder if they'll alter the numbering to fit with the concept of being able to identify units by the last 2 digits; 401 ought really to be 478...?

350/4s mainly built for intercity style travel. While rest 350s are intended for commuter and regional services. They differ, so 478 sounds silly. My opinion of course.

 

[Merle Haggard]

If I were LNR I'd keep it as-is and concentrate them on the Trent Valley (can 5 pairs of units run the whole thing?) making First Class a far better proposition for the money - but I bet they won't.

I don't think they're hard done-by on the Trent Valley.

Taking a random future date, Wed 15th Jan, first train after 09.30;
Northampton to Euston - First Class - £52.70
Stafford to Euston - First Class - £55.00
For those not conversant, Stafford is about twice the distance of Northampton from London.

I did raise this at the Northampton presentation about the new timetable and the answer was 'People say that competition on the railways doesn't reduce prices'.

 

[BucksBones]

350/4s mainly built for intercity style travel. While rest 350s are intended for commuter and regional services. They differ, so 478 sounds silly. My opinion of course.

Were they to remain with TPE, yes... I just wondered whether WMT/LNR might want to renumber according to their convention. Not that it matters to me, just idle musing!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think they're hard done-by on the Trent Valley.

Taking a random future date, Wed 15th Jan, first train after 09.30;
Northampton to Euston - First Class - £52.70
Stafford to Euston - First Class - £55.00
For those not conversant, Stafford is about twice the distance of Northampton from London.

I did raise this at the Northampton presentation about the new timetable and the answer was 'People say that competition on the railways doesn't reduce prices'.

Have you been in Class 350/1 First Class? It is inferior to Standard, and therefore even £0.01 more than Standard is too expensive.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Have you been in Class 350/1 First Class? It is inferior to Standard, and therefore even £0.01 more than Standard is too expensive.

You cannot state as fact that it is inferior! Many people actually class a reclining seat, larger table, extra legroom, curtains and a seat light as benefits! The refurbishment has not changed this either.

 

[sufian123]

Were they to remain with TPE, yes... I just wondered whether WMT/LNR might want to renumber according to their convention. Not that it matters to me, just idle musing!

Fair enough.

 

[Silverlinky]

Thank you for the info about '69; after idly staring at the new screen from Coventry to Northampton, I only realised when I got off that it might be unusual.
Does 401 retain the low density seating please? Bearing in mind the difficulty that seems to have been encountered with doing much with the conductor's office in the 350/1s the 350/4s first class might be a problem, because it extends the full length between the doors, with bulkheads (with twin doors) at the doorways - of course, the local 350s all have one bay of standard between the doors and the first at one end, and a single piece door. 2+1 seating and table lamps - it's like err first class, that won't do.

I haven’t seen 401 internally but they were talking about changing 1st class to 2+2 so that it was consistent across all the sub classes. The third toilet was to remain though.

 

[Silverlinky]

5


I travelled on 104 on 2nd Nov (1621 COV-NMP) white exterior but it still had the dowdy old seats. Has it really been done that quickly?

no, 101 and 104 are in white but neither have been refurbed....confirmed.

116, 113 and 129 are currently all away having work done on them....don’t know which are at bletchley and which at Long Marston.

106,115,123 and 369 all have the new PIS system, but are all non-multi as the new software is not compatible with the old, so a refurbished unit can not currently run with a non refurbed....

 

[RealTrains07]

no, 101 and 104 are in white but neither have been refurbed....confirmed.

116, 113 and 129 are currently all away having work done on them....don’t know which are at bletchley and which at Long Marston.

106,115,123 and 369 all have the new PIS system, but are all non-multi as the new software is not compatible with the old, so a refurbished unit can not currently run with a non refurbed....

Explains why their is a shortage of trains at the moment then

good to see the refurb program finally kick in

 

[pt_mad]

Have you been in Class 350/1 First Class? It is inferior to Standard, and therefore even £0.01 more than Standard is too expensive.

It's nice if you want to sit quietly or do some work. Like a quiet zone of sorts.

 

[Furton]

It's nice if you want to sit quietly or do some work. Like a quiet zone of sorts.

And guaranteed 2+2 seating. 2+3 seating from Liverpool to Birmingham is horrible

 

[Silverlinky]

350401 is repaired and will soon enter service....modifications carried out, internal works done (converted to 2+2 in 1st class), in LNW livery.

Three more units (unspecified numbers) will be with LNW for December 16th, these will not be modified before entering service, and initially will only be 100mph capable, retain 2+1 seating and retain the speed set function unique to the mk 4's

These units will be removed from service to be refreshed, refurbed as and when able to as part of the remods program.

305/1's will continue to go through the program, 350'3's will receive the new PIS and screens (369 already done), no work being carried out on the Mk 2's (including no more applications of an interim livery)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which seats are being fitted in 1st on these sets? Are the (Fainsa?) ones used on the majority of /1s still available to purchase, or are there a stock of spares?

I still think they are absolutely stupid to change them to 2+2 rather than concentrating them on the Trent Valley. I for one would pay First every time if they didn't insist on having an interior that is markedly inferior to Standard (not even the same as per SN!). Even if they did 2+2 with some leather-headrested Grammer IC3000s and extra legroom (rather than less legroom than a number of Standard seats as it is now) I might be sold on it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Which seats are being fitted in 1st on these sets? Are the (Fainsa?) ones used on the majority of /1s still available to purchase, or are there a stock of spares?

Well, there’s theoretically 127 x 8 1st seats somewhere removed from 450s?

 

[Silverlinky]

With this timetable it’s impossible to concentrate them on the Trent Valley services, units are not allowed to sit at Euston for the length of time that they would need to. Xx33 from Crewe arrives Euston xx50....would need to sit there for 56 minutes to work the xx46 back out again.

 

[Mordac]

350401 is repaired and will soon enter service....modifications carried out, internal works done (converted to 2+2 in 1st class), in LNW livery.

Three more units (unspecified numbers) will be with LNW for December 16th, these will not be modified before entering service, and initially will only be 100mph capable, retain 2+1 seating and retain the speed set function unique to the mk 4's

These units will be removed from service to be refreshed, refurbed as and when able to as part of the remods program.

305/1's will continue to go through the program, 350'3's will receive the new PIS and screens (369 already done), no work being carried out on the Mk 2's (including no more applications of an interim livery)

They were 110mph with TPE! Are they seriously going to be downgraded?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Well, there’s theoretically 127 x 8 1st seats somewhere removed from 450s?

Theoretically, yes.

My 'mole' down south told me a little while ago that, when it was decided to restore first class in some standard class only 450s, it was discovered that someone had decided that keeping the removed first class seats took up too much storage space and they had been 'binned'; new ones had to be obtained.

Not sure it's true, but a usually reliable source.

 

[swt_passenger]

Theoretically, yes.

My 'mole' down south told me a little while ago that, when it was decided to restore first class in some standard class only 450s, it was discovered that someone had decided that keeping the removed first class seats took up too much storage space and they had been 'binned'; new ones had to be obtained.

Not sure it's true, but a usually reliable source.

Sounds highly likely, and then only a few months after they were all put back the new franchisee was probably already deciding to remove a third of them...