Class 350/1 refurbishment

[BucksBones]

Three more units (unspecified numbers) will be with LNW for December 16th, these will not be modified before entering service, and initially will only be 100mph capable, retain 2+1 seating and retain the speed set function unique to the mk 4s

Good, that seems eminently sensible. They're in good nick, no point wasting time on them when the network is in desperate need of the capacity. I'm surprised they bothered doing anything to 401. The 100mph thing could be problematic though as they'll have no way of keeping these units away from 110mph diagrams.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good, that seems eminently sensible. They're in good nick, no point wasting time on them when the network is in desperate need of the capacity. I'm surprised they bothered doing anything to 401. The 100mph thing could be problematic though as they'll have no way of keeping these units away from 110mph diagrams.

They didn't before, and so 350/2s just ended up on Crewe services running late.

 

[BucksBones]

They didn't before, and so 350/2s just ended up on Crewe services running late.

I know, I'm sure it will be just the same. Better than continuing with the constant short forms though.

 

[RealTrains07]

350401 is repaired and will soon enter service....modifications carried out, internal works done (converted to 2+2 in 1st class), in LNW livery.

Three more units (unspecified numbers) will be with LNW for December 16th, these will not be modified before entering service, and initially will only be 100mph capable, retain 2+1 seating and retain the speed set function unique to the mk 4's

These units will be removed from service to be refreshed, refurbed as and when able to as part of the remods program.

305/1's will continue to go through the program, 350'3's will receive the new PIS and screens (369 already done), no work being carried out on the Mk 2's (including no more applications of an interim livery)

Sounds like you work for them any news on when the 350/3s will enter internal refurbishment mode?

looks good to me in the meantime..
Credits: Nigel Gould

 

[Doomotron]

Which seats are being fitted in 1st on these sets? Are the (Fainsa?) ones used on the majority of /1s still available to purchase, or are there a stock of spares?

Compins. Used in Electrostars and on several train types in France including Ouigo. They might still be available although a future refurbishment of any of the fleets that use them may free them up. Hopefully they use the ones from the 375/6s, they're lovely seats but admittedly I prefer the harder ones in the /8s.

 

[NewSt]

350401 is repaired and will soon enter service....modifications carried out, internal works done (converted to 2+2 in 1st class), in LNW livery.

Wonderful...

I'll have to try and catch the units entering service with 2+1 first class before they're refurbished!

 

[RealTrains07]

Wonderful...

I'll have to try and catch the units entering service with 2+1 first class before they're refurbished!

We are lucky cause if the 350/4s arrival at LNR wasn’t so late they would mostly be refurbished but as always they are needed in service as soon as possible come the new timetable

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wonderful...

I'll have to try and catch the units entering service with 2+1 first class before they're refurbished!

You've also got the excellent First Class in the Class 319s - the Tring stoppers are the place to be!

(Excellent Standard in the 319/2s too - better than any 350, and absolutely knocks spots of 350 First Class)

 

[pt_mad]

350401 is repaired and will soon enter service....modifications carried out, internal works done (converted to 2+2 in 1st class), in LNW livery.

Seems entirely sensible to opt for 2+2 first class across the fleet, given capacity is such an important factor on this network. Maximum bottoms on seats is probably priority overall.
How many first class seats are there in a 2 + 1 Vs 2 + 2 350 first class section? And is the first class compartment bigger on the TPE layout meaning less standard seats?

 

[NewSt]

We are lucky cause if the 350/4s arrival at LNR wasn’t so late they would mostly be refurbished but as always they are needed in service as soon as possible come the new timetable

We certainly are!

 

[NewSt]

You've also got the excellent First Class in the Class 319s - the Tring stoppers are the place to be!

(Excellent Standard in the 319/2s too - better than any 350, and absolutely knocks spots of 350 First Class)

Yes, although it was only for a short journey I have travelled on a 319 (on the Abbey Line) and noted how much better the first class was.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Seems entirely sensible to opt for 2+2 first class across the fleet, given capacity is such an important factor on this network. Maximum bottoms on seats is probably priority overall.
How many first class seats are there in a 2 + 1 Vs 2 + 2 350 first class section? And is the first class compartment bigger on the TPE layout meaning less standard seats?

/4s have 19 1st class, remainder 24. On /4s, one single airline seat replaced by a luggage rack, so 2 + 2 might give 24 but with more legroom. Don't forget there's less standard seating in the /4s, too, ; worst is PTSO (2 toilets in the /4s, one in the rest), 42 vs 50+9 in the /1s and /3s, 61 + 9 in the /2s. Perhaps 3 + 2 seating to redress this (I'm joking, but you never know...)
Oddly, when the 350/2s were still 100mph, anecdotally (i.e., when I caught them) they kept time on the non-stop Northampton Euston trains and also Rugby - Hanslope on the fast Crewe. Spoke to a driver (small sample, I know) and he concurred that they could keep time south of Rugby.

 

[swt_passenger]

/4s have 19 1st class, remainder 24. On /4s, one single airline seat replaced by a luggage rack, so 2 + 2 might give 24 but with more legroom. Don't forget there's less standard seating in the /4s, too...

The “1st” section on a 350/4 is significantly longer than the other 3 batches though, taking up the whole of the length between the doors. Is it possible the position of one of the sets of partition doors will be moved to match the others?

 

[Merle Haggard]

The “1st” section on a 350/4 is significantly longer than the other 3 batches though, taking up the whole of the length between the doors. Is it possible the position of one of the sets of partition doors will be moved to match the others?

Yes, I actually mentioned this above. However, two observations.
The bulkhead (in the /1, /2, /3) that is not against the doors, but inset one bay, is different from the one on the /4s that's against the doors; the former has a single door, the latter, double (the doors at the opposite end in all cases are against the doors and double in all sub classes).
LNR/Siemens apparently found it beyond their technical expertise to replace the conductor's office with seats but just made it look like a luggage rack. I'll make a wild guess that moving a bulkhead is even more complicated.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, I actually mentioned this above. However, two observations.
The bulkhead (in the /1, /2, /3) that is not against the doors, but inset one bay, is different from the one on the /4s that's against the doors; the former has a single door, the latter, double (the doors at the opposite end in all cases are against the doors and double in all sub classes).
LNR/Siemens apparently found it beyond their technical expertise to replace the conductor's office with seats but just made it look like a luggage rack. I'll make a wild guess that moving a bulkhead is even more complicated.

Siemens managed to remove both bulkheads completely and replace the 450 guards compartment with seats, and you can’t see any sign of the original layout at all. I think you just get exactly what you’re prepared to pay for.

Sorry, I hadn’t registered your post about the length a page or so back.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Sorry, I hadn’t registered your post about the length a page or so back.

Easily done on long threads, I've done it myself.

Looking at the bulkheads, they do seem to be comparatively easy to move. It's a bit hard to describe in words, but the lighting etc. on the ceiling seems to pass above the bulkhead with a seal to close the gap, there's seals all around the bulkhead against the walls as well, so it might not be THAT difficult.

By the way, converting from 2+1 to 2+2 and doing a complete job isn't just moving the seats - extra lights have to be fitted in the overhead racks on the former single side, and the angle adjusted for the narrower double seats. Looked like a big job on the pendos. but, again, on the 350s the lighting units look like they're separate.

As you say, expense might be the factor. It occurs to me that the /4s are allegedly sub-hired to TPE from (at the time) LM so perhaps TPE will pick up the bill?

 

[J4mez]

Easily done on long threads, I've done it myself.

Looking at the bulkheads, they do seem to be comparatively easy to move. It's a bit hard to describe in words, but the lighting etc. on the ceiling seems to pass above the bulkhead with a seal to close the gap, there's seals all around the bulkhead against the walls as well, so it might not be THAT difficult.

By the way, converting from 2+1 to 2+2 and doing a complete job isn't just moving the seats - extra lights have to be fitted in the overhead racks on the former single side, and the angle adjusted for the narrower double seats. Looked like a big job on the pendos. but, again, on the 350s the lighting units look like they're separate.

As you say, expense might be the factor. It occurs to me that the /4s are allegedly sub-hired to TPE from (at the time) LM so perhaps TPE will pick up the bill?

I’m pretty sure the 350/4’s were ordered specifically for TPE but they were just added onto London Midlands order, which would make perfect sense as they are both from the same leasing company, I know this has been mentioned previously on another thread.

 

[swt_passenger]

I’m pretty sure the 350/4’s were ordered specifically for TPE but they were just added onto London Midlands order, which would make perfect sense as they are both from the same leasing company, I know this has been mentioned previously on another thread.

I concur with that. From memory there were options available for 20 units, effectively following on from the 350/2s. As LM needed 10, DfT got them to increase the order to 20 via the ROSCO with the second 10 for immediate transfer to TPE. The legal buzzword was “contract novation”...

 

[Merle Haggard]

350106, 350115, 350104 and 350123 does have internal done. Not sure if 350101.

350101 on back of 1713 En - Northampton- Birmingham and still scruffy blue seats.

 

[sufian123]

Thanks

 

[Merle Haggard]

no, 101 and 104 are in white but neither have been refurbed....confirmed.

116, 113 and 129 are currently all away having work done on them....don’t know which are at bletchley and which at Long Marston.

106,115,123 and 369 all have the new PIS system, but are all non-multi as the new software is not compatible with the old, so a refurbished unit can not currently run with a non refurbed....

This does seem to be bad news - in effect, there's 2 sub-groups of 350 that can only run with ones within their own sub-group, and one sub-group will get progressively larger while the other diminishes.
However, it will give the power controllers practice for when the new trains come on stream - presumably the new 5 cars sets can't multiple with the 350s - or can they? On the other hand, they can, there's a big job for the man that puts up car-stop signs...

 

[RealTrains07]

Riding a 350/3 with the new display screens. Nice touch overall. At least they work now.

one thing i have noticed with the refurbished units is the old displays has had some changes such as the clock and the coach number displayed at the same time instead of the clock on its own

the 350/3 units with new screens also have plug sockets installed too incase anyone wasnt already aware

 

[59CosG95]

Riding a 350/3 with the new display screens. Nice touch overall. At least they work now.

one thing i have noticed with the refurbished units is the old displays has had some changes such as the clock and the coach number displayed at the same time instead of the clock on its own

the 350/3 units with new screens also have plug sockets installed too incase anyone wasnt already aware

I believe the 10 350/3s had plugs from the outset.

 

[sd0733]

I believe the 10 350/3s had plugs from the outset.

Only at the tables though. If they are at all seats and have USB sockets they are an improvement. If it's just 3 pin ones at each table they are as built.

 

[RealTrains07]

Only at the tables though. If they are at all seats and have USB sockets they are an improvement. If it's just 3 pin ones at each table they are as built.

I believe the 10 350/3s had plugs from the outset.

By plugs installed i mean at seat plug sockets with usb like the refurbished 350/1s

 

[causton]

350369 I saw, it has USB+plugs under the seat backs and has replaced some (but not all) of the original table ones in 1st class.

 

[DarloRich]

What is happening with the TPE units? Are they being renumbered into the LM range? Have any entered service yet?

 

[sufian123]

What is happening with the TPE units? Are they being renumbered into the LM range? Have any entered service yet?

no tpe sets will stay in range 401-410, and interior will be like 350/1s due in service from December TT change. 1 has been refurbished.

 

[DarloRich]

no tpe sets will stay in range 401-410, and interior will be like 350/1s due in service from December TT change. 1 has been refurbished.

thanks - is the refurb finished but the train not in service? I assume it is the one hidden away at Bletchley depot.

 

[sufian123]

thanks - is the refurb finished but the train not in service? I assume it is the one hidden away at Bletchley depot.

It is. Recently had a battery fault. It’s in Bletchley in LN colours. See if you can spot it