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Class 365 future

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swt_passenger

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That is a possibility. Can anyone say what was asked for in the Greater Anglia bids? ISTR that something to replace the LHCS was on the books, was it specified to be new builds, or could the 365s end up there.

Wont be used for that diagram, not enough sets for the job, plus there will be an issue with catering and lost revenue, also Norwich to Yarmouth isn't under wires and not sure if you can easily get a 47 to drag a 365
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Would they be of any good to Southern to replace their 313s and 455s (would have the added side benefit of enabling all their electric fleet to be either dual-voltage or easily upgradable to dual voltage)?

The only other place I could see them going would be SouthEastern after any required mods being done to make them compatible with the 465s and 466s
 

Minstral25

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Would they be of any good to Southern to replace their 313s and 455s (would have the added side benefit of enabling all their electric fleet to be either dual-voltage or easily upgradable to dual voltage)?

The only other place I could see them going would be SouthEastern after any required mods being done to make them compatible with the 465s and 466s

It is asked many times but GTR have clearly stated that the 313's on Southern are not going anywhere in this franchise (i.e. before 2021), especially as they are about to be refurbished again.
 

D365

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Would they be of any good to Southern to replace their 313s and 455s (would have the added side benefit of enabling all their electric fleet to be either dual-voltage or easily upgradable to dual voltage)?

There's not enough 365s to do that.

The only other place I could see them going would be SouthEastern after any required mods being done to make them compatible with the 465s and 466s

Why are mods needed? The previous Southeastern franchise used to run 16 of the 365s.
 

Class 466

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If 365s came over to SE, they wouldn't necessarily need to work with 465s and could just work their own diagram sets. Much like 376s and 465s on metro work.
 

mr_jrt

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The big difference between the WCML and ECML is number of and nature of stations between the 'end' of the London commuter services and the main stops on the formerly Inter City services.

On the WCML from Rugby through to Stoke or Crewe, you've got the 6 Trent Valley stations (Atherstone, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield TV, Rugeley TV, Stone) which don't warrant a regular Inter City style service of the frequency the LM service provides.That's in addition to the major stations (Stafford, Stoke, Crewe) In the past you also had Norton Bridge, Barlaston and Wedgwood to consider as well.

The ECML from Peterboro to Doncaster has Grantham, Newark and Retford. That's it. So the need for a 'semi fast' type service is much reduced.

...well, yes, but lets not forget that ~15 stations between Peterborough and Doncaster were closed in the 1950's, just leaving the primary "intercity" stops. A bit more infrastructure and some of those might well warrant reopening if a LM-style service could be provided.
 

D365

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...well, yes, but lets not forget that ~15 stations between Peterborough and Doncaster were closed in the 1950's, just leaving the primary "intercity" stops. A bit more infrastructure and some of those might well warrant reopening if a LM-style service could be provided.

Most (if not all) of those stations were serving villages though?
 

A0wen

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...well, yes, but lets not forget that ~15 stations between Peterborough and Doncaster were closed in the 1950's, just leaving the primary "intercity" stops. A bit more infrastructure and some of those might well warrant reopening if a LM-style service could be provided.

I take it you've looked at a map ?

Just about the biggest place between Peterborough and Doncaster which doesn't have a station is Bawtry (popn 3,500).

Atherstone over on the WCML and the smallest settlement with a functioning station (I'll ignore Polesworth for practical reasons) is three times the size of Bawtry.

Of the others between Rugby and Crewe / Stoke, only Stone is 'standalone' the others (Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield, Rugeley TV and Stafford) are all junctions with other lines - whereas there are no such 'unserved' junctions on the ECML.
 

MatthewRead

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Just found out after reading the latest issue of Rail that the 365s will no longer be going to GWR which is a shame because I wanted a bit more variety on the GWML after electrification :(
 

Domh245

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Just found out after reading the latest issue of Rail that the 365s will no longer be going to GWR which is a shame because I wanted a bit more variety on the GWML after electrification :(

(Un)Fortunately, the operational needs of the railway come first. You may be lamenting the loss of variety, however the railway is welcoming the fact that maintenance depots only have to have one type of spares, drivers only have to learn one type of train, and if one of them breaks down, they'll be glad that the chances of the train behind being able to assist it are much higher, etc
 

MatthewRead

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(Un)Fortunately, the operational needs of the railway come first. You may be lamenting the loss of variety, however the railway is welcoming the fact that maintenance depots only have to have one type of spares, drivers only have to learn one type of train, and if one of them breaks down, they'll be glad that the chances of the train behind being able to assist it are much higher, etc
So what happens to the 365s now?:(
 

Domh245

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So what happens to the 365s now?:(

That was the point of this thread I thought! So far, we seem to have narrowed it down to: SouthEastern, Wales, MML, storage or scrap, but until someone comes out with official information, we won't know for certain
 

mr_jrt

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I take it you've looked at a map ?

Just about the biggest place between Peterborough and Doncaster which doesn't have a station is Bawtry (popn 3,500).

Atherstone over on the WCML and the smallest settlement with a functioning station (I'll ignore Polesworth for practical reasons) is three times the size of Bawtry.

Of the others between Rugby and Crewe / Stoke, only Stone is 'standalone' the others (Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield, Rugeley TV and Stafford) are all junctions with other lines - whereas there are no such 'unserved' junctions on the ECML.

Most (if not all) of those stations were serving villages though?

It's amazing what 60 years of not being connected to the rail network will do to constrain a place's growth. Given the housing shortage in this country, you'd think some of those might be good candidates for building new towns around to provide some of the hundreds tens of thousands of new homes we need.
 

D365

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Also note that 29 387/1s is seemingly not enough to cover the balance of GN's non-700 services... What will the remainder of the fleet consist of?
 

jon0844

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It's amazing what 60 years of not being connected to the rail network will do to constrain a place's growth. Given the housing shortage in this country, you'd think some of those might be good candidates for building new towns around to provide some of the hundreds tens of thousands of new homes we need.
The problem is that everywhere that could take a good few thousand homes seems to meet strong opposition, coupled with the fact that developers don't like to build too fast and impact on property values.
 

D365

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From where would these additional 387s be sourced though?
 

Domh245

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From where would these additional 387s be sourced though?

c2c. There are 29 387/1s that are in service (or undergoing modifications) with Thameslink and then there will be a further 6 at c2c. Once the c2c units are released, they haven't got a confirmed future, so it'd make sense for them to join the other 387 outpost at GN.

Out of interest, how many units do GN need to cover their non 700 services?
 

D365

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Out of interest, how many units do GN need to cover their non 700 services?

Before the change in plans it was planned to be 19x 365 and 19x 377/5, making 38 four-car units. This is the main source of my confusion as it's not known whether the balance will have gone up or down.

Though I was asking about Brian Aylott's suggestion of 43 387s.
 

Brian Aylott

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Though I was asking about [B said:
Brian Aylott[/B]'s suggestion of 43 387s.

Its not a suggestion - its a fact (except I put 43 instead of 45!)
The latest GWR order is for 37 and previously they had ordered 8 - ie 45 in all - 8 units more than shown in the GWR Franchise Agreement (Specified Additional Rolling Stock)
Brian
 

D365

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The latest GWR order is for 37 and previously they had ordered 8 - ie 45 in all - 8 units more than shown in the GWR Franchise Agreement (Specified Additional Rolling Stock)

That's all well and good, but we're talking here about the (partially speculative) future Great Northern fleet ;)
 

Domh245

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Before the change in plans it was planned to be 19x 365 and 19x 377/5, making 38 four-car units. This is the main source of my confusion as it's not known whether the balance will have gone up or down.

Though I was asking about Brian Aylott's suggestion of 43 387s.

Ah, fair enough. I think that by switching to a uniform fleet, they'll be able to run an equivalent service with fewer units. Rather than 2 fleets with their own maintenance schedules, there will just be one. Add to that a slightly lower maintenance need and it might just be feasible.
 

Hadders

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Why not keep all the 365s on Great Northern and use the 387s elsewhere.
 
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