Class 365 future

[Domh245]

Why not keep all the 365s on Great Northern and use the 387s elsewhere.

The south can't use old trains!

Practically though, there is an argument for them to go to 387s as it would allow GTR to simplify and streamline training and parts sourcing.

 

[D365]

Govia made a franchise commitment to replacing the 365s on the Cambridge fasts with a superior fleet (air conditioning, SDO etc). In addition, the 387s may be able to make use of their enhanced top speed when running on the ECML.

 

[Hadders]

At least the 365s don't have ironing board seats. I think we'd rather keep them!

 

[43021HST]

The south can't use old trains!

Practically though, there is an argument for them to go to 387s as it would allow GTR to simplify and streamline training and parts sourcing.

Oh dear this rather Cliche'd argument again :roll:.

The reason why is mostly to do with capacity of rolling stock, the 700s have a superior capacity to Class 365s and what with population growth in the south, new trains are needed to create extra capacity.

"bluddy soverners get all the new trains". Whilst ignoring things like Class 332s, Class 350s, Class 185s, Voyagers, Pendolinos, IEPs, 175s, 170s.

 

[jon0844]

Yeah the south can't have old trains. Even though the Great Northern doesn't have a single train with air conditioning, and loads of them are 40 odd years old and the newest around 20 years old.

 

[Domh245]

Oh dear this rather Cliche'd argument again :roll:.

The reason why is mostly to do with capacity of rolling stock, the 700s have a superior capacity to Class 365s and what with population growth in the south, new trains are needed to create extra capacity.

"bluddy soverners get all the new trains". Whilst ignoring things like Class 332s, Class 350s, Class 185s, Voyagers, Pendolinos, IEPs, 175s, 170s.

Did I really need to add a [/sarcasm] tag in addition to the smiley?

 

[43021HST]

Did I really need to add a [/sarcasm] tag in addition to the smiley?

I'm sorry, you hear it said so many times on this site you naturally assume people are being serious about it.

 

[physics34]

just had a thought that these could come to SOuthern to replace the 455s.......

 

[jopsuk]

just had a thought that these could come to SOuthern to replace the 455s.......

They're express outer suburban units that are over 20 years old and will need some work (eg fabricating shoe gear!) to use 3rd rail. They're not suitable replacements for 30 yr old 3rd rail metro units.

 

[D365]

And there's not enough. Only 40 units, and it's not know how many (if any) will be kept on GN.

 

[MatthewRead]

Why can't they just send them to GWR like they had said they can work infill services and other future electrified lines like what was originally promised?

 

[43074]

And there's not enough. Only 40 units, and it's not know how many (if any) will be kept on GN.

Class377/5 posted on the 700 thread that the original plan for 19 365s is still the case, so GN will have a larger fleet of trains in total than originally planned, by 10 units. Therefore 21 365s are potentially up for grabs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why can't they just send them to GWR like they had said they can work infill services and other future electrified lines like what was originally promised?

Because GWR are getting more 387s (confirmed) and AT300s (unconfirmed) than was originally planned, so there's no need for them.

 

[D365]

Class377/5 posted on the 700 thread that the original plan for 19 365s is still the case, so GN will have a larger fleet of trains in total than originally planned, by 10 units. Therefore 21 365s are potentially up for grabs.

Thanks for confirming. I didn't catch that.

Because GWR are getting more 387s (confirmed) and AT300s (unconfirmed) than was originally planned, so there's no need for them.

Yep. Eight more 387s (excluding the six short-term c2c units which may come later) and five more AT300s.

 

[physics34]

And there's not enough. Only 40 units, and it's not know how many (if any) will be kept on GN.

There will.be reduced 455 usage from 2018 onwards but I don't know by how many.

 

[D365]

There will.be reduced 455 usage from 2018 onwards but I don't know by how many.

Is 21x 365 enough for you?

 

[hwl]

Is 21x 365 enough for you?

About the right number but the platforms aren't cleared for networker stock

 

[swt_passenger]

There will.be reduced 455 usage from 2018 onwards but I don't know by how many.

However what was announced was reduced utilisation, that doesn't necessarily mean lower numbers.

If for example they all came out on weekday peak periods only, and were never diagrammed at weekends, that would reduce hours used massively, but wouldn't affect the numbers on lease.

 

[edwin_m]

About the right number but the platforms aren't cleared for networker stock

May also be EMC problems with running them on lines with older signalling, other than the SouthEastern and Great Northern that the original safety case covered.

 

[physics34]

However what was announced was reduced utilisation, that doesn't necessarily mean lower numbers.

If for example they all came out on weekday peak periods only, and were never diagrammed at weekends, that would reduce hours used massively, but wouldn't affect the numbers on lease.

I just can't imagine they are gonna have the depot/sidings space for 46 units to do "not very much". Whereas having less units all told would be better!

 

[YorkshireBear]

I just can't imagine they are gonna have the depot/sidings space for 46 units to do "not very much". Whereas having less units all told would be better!

Spares for special events

 

[swt_passenger]

I just can't imagine they are gonna have the depot/sidings space for 46 units to do "not very much". Whereas having less units all told would be better!

The franchise announcement by GoVia said that they were keeping them with lower utilisation. Until we hear anything officially shouldn't we just believe that that is still happening?

 

[physics34]

The franchise announcement by GoVia said that they were keeping them with lower utilisation. Until we hear anything officially shouldn't we just believe that that is still happening?

...nah let's discuss other possibilities, it is a forum after all.

 

[D365]

...nah let's discuss other possibilities, it is a forum after all.

442s, no?

 

[physics34]

442s, no?

Ha ha...have they been converted to LHCS yet?! Ha ha.

I mentioned the 365 scenario because class 377/5 said there will be some cascade changes and that selhurst will become a very busy depot.

 

[hwl]

Ha ha...have they been converted to LHCS yet?! Ha ha.

I mentioned the 365 scenario because class 377/5 said there will be some cascade changes and that selhurst will become a very busy depot.

Much more likely that all the 377/5s will end up at Selhurst rather than just handful.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What routes apart from where they currently run are they cleared for or could easily be cleared for?

I'd assume that in DC mode they'd be cleared for all routes that the 465s and 466s run on

 

[jon0844]

442s, no?

I believe there should be an announcement soon to confirm the 365s and 442s will be combined to form a new fleet of dual voltage class 807 trains.

 

[MatthewRead]

I believe there should be an announcement soon to confirm the 365s and 442s will be combined to form a new fleet of dual voltage class 807 trains.

Stop talking nonsense!

 

[D365]

Stop talking nonsense!

Nonsense indeed. I thought the plan was to merge them with the (clearly mechanically similar) 373 and 230 power cars to make a go-anywhere tri-mode fleet that would then be proposed to bidders for the next Greater Anglia franchise.

 

[43074]

I believe there should be an announcement soon to confirm the 365s and 442s will be combined to form a new fleet of dual voltage class 807 trains.

Like one of these?

[Image showing the proposed Class 471 Networker, essentially a 442 cab end bolted onto a Networker body].