Class 365 future

[Nomad8459]

I am really confused? didn't great northern say they will replace the 365s ? why don't they replace them with the class 379 or the 387?

Things do seem confusing with various ifs or maybes - i hear that GN is to replace the 365s but nobody really knows where they will go - the 321s will surely be up for grabs soon too - the East-West link i hear is to be wired though also, so trains needed there

 

[jimm]

That was an initial plan, but then 387s were ordered. With the postponement or cancellation of electrification from Didcot to Oxford, it's only bi-modes that can make it to Oxford anyway for the near future.

Didcot to Oxford has been deferred, not cancelled.

I had thought ( not a good idea i know ) that the recent Oxford works were a prelim for the wires - (i hope they did the work with wiring in mind!) - just been trying to dig into this and it seems that the programs are deemed as "deferred" - assumed cancelled - but again, reading publications from the sphere stated that the costs of re-training people and staff by not doing things in workable chunks until fully completed just makes things more expensive which does seem apparent - the TPE route was also classed as deferred but is kind of in Limbo, the Bristol Temple Meads (to parkway) and Oxford sections of any. seem to me to be the absolute minimum requirement for the project to achieve anything at all really and to pull them when staff are trained and not to assume them to be ongoing just makes the spend incurred even more surreal. Oh Well - sure the 365s will find a home, good units in my mind.

Try looking in a dictionary - since when have deferred and cancelled meant the same thing?

The DfT chose the words it used carefully in relation to Oxford and Bristol Temple Meads wiring, as opposed to Cardiff-Swansea, where the c word was used.

Of course the new track layout at Oxford was designed with future needs - electrification and a rebuilt/expanded station - in mind, as has been noted in various places on this forum many times for several years. Network Rail has displayed diagrams of the Oxford area at public events in the city over several years now showing the new track layout with an overlay of the planned extent of overhead wiring.

And the only place any Turbos released by electrification to Oxford and of Thames Valley branch lines will be going is to Bristol, not the Chiltern Line.

 

[Nomad8459]

Try reading the text before giving advice.. I said "deferred" assumed cancelled .. and not assumed by me at that.. I had read deferred to be just that...hence my initial thought that the 365s may end up on Oxford to Padd services in the future...

Didcot to Oxford has been deferred, not cancelled.



Try looking in a dictionary - since when have deferred and cancelled meant the same thing?

The DfT chose the words it used carefully in relation to Oxford and Bristol Temple Meads wiring, as opposed to Cardiff-Swansea, where the c word was used.

Of course the new track layout at Oxford was designed with future needs - electrification and a rebuilt/expanded station - in mind, as has been noted in various places on this forum many times for several years. Network Rail has displayed diagrams of the Oxford area at public events in the city over several years now showing the new track layout with an overlay of the planned extent of overhead wiring.

And the only place any Turbos released by electrification to Oxford and of Thames Valley branch lines will be going is to Bristol, not the Chiltern Line.

 

[jimm]

And where did you say this was assumed by someone else, exactly? Your words were:

it seems that the programs are deemed as "deferred" - assumed cancelled

There's no seeming or assuming about it - the Government announcement was very clear at the time it was made.

Oxford and Bristol Temple Meads deferred, Cardiff-Swansea cancelled. End of story.

Similarly, any prospect of 365s being used between Paddington and Oxford or anywhere on GW went out of the window when GWR did its sums and made the decision two years that it would rather have an all-new fleet of 387s and some more IETs than a mix of ageing 319s and 365s.

And TfL has a lot of Class 345s that it wants to put to work, despite the delay to Crossrail, if any more emus are needed in the Thames Valley - see the Class 769 thread.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...om-319s-initially-for-northern.138660/page-69

 

[Class465fan]

And where did you say this was assumed by someone else, exactly? Your words were:



There's no seeming or assuming about it - the Government announcement was very clear at the time it was made.

Oxford and Bristol Temple Meads deferred, Cardiff-Swansea cancelled. End of story.

Similarly, any prospect of 365s being used between Paddington and Oxford or anywhere on GW went out of the window when GWR did its sums and made the decision two years that it would rather have an all-new fleet of 387s and some more IETs than a mix of ageing 319s and 365s.

And TfL has a lot of Class 345s that it wants to put to work, despite the delay to Crossrail, if any more emus are needed in the Thames Valley - see the Class 769 thread.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...om-319s-initially-for-northern.138660/page-69

Oxford hasn't been cancelled yet. They said that work won't commence until next year CP6 plans take place

 

[Nomad8459]

Semantics - goodbye

 

[Euan]

Could the 365s be retained on Great Northern King's Lynn to King's Cross route to supplement the half-hourly service in the future?

 

[jopsuk]

As far as I understand the combined fleet (retained 365s + 387s) at GN is sufficient for the planned half-hourly King's Lynn service

 

[33021]

Further South East ...?

 

[Doomotron]

ageing 319s

GWR then proceeded to order 319s.

 

[Along the bay]

GWR then proceeded to order 319s.

Technically there 769s but pretty much yes . Although for a different purpose than originally intended. It was originally intended for them to work commuter services from Paddington but the 769s will work reading area locals .

 

[bramling]

As far as I understand the combined fleet (retained 365s + 387s) at GN is sufficient for the planned half-hourly King's Lynn service

Yes it should be. There’s a fair bit of slack in the 387 duties at the moment, especially during the midday period.

If any further 387 use is required then there are six units which work Peterborough peak services which could be covered by 365s.

 

[Euan]

As far as I understand the combined fleet (retained 365s + 387s) at GN is sufficient for the planned half-hourly King's Lynn service

I see. Thanks for the info.

Another possible use for the 365s could be getting 8 car trains into operation ASAP?

 

[jon0844]

Noticed my first 365 with Wi-Fi last night. It's finally happening then!

 

[DarloRich]

Did i notice a load of these parked up near Crewe? Are they being stored there pending future use?

 

[387star]

Noticed my first 365 with Wi-Fi last night. It's finally happening then!

On GTR?
The majority of 700s that have nowhere to place a cuppa for a 2 hour plus journey still lack it

 

[43096]

Did i notice a load of these parked up near Crewe? Are they being stored there pending future use?

Yes and, presumably, yes.

You might want to have a look at ROG’s latest newsletter, which explains the who and why:
https://www.railopsgroup.co.uk/app/download/17063082/Keeping+Track+1806v02.pdf

 

[bramling]

On GTR?
The majority of 700s that have nowhere to place a cuppa for a 2 hour plus journey still lack it

I was on 365516 last night which had operational Wi-Fi.

 

[jon0844]

On GTR?
The majority of 700s that have nowhere to place a cuppa for a 2 hour plus journey still lack it

They're going to be retrofitted. I assume the 365s are currently getting it as I saw another this morning with the stickers on the door.

 

[nxea321446]

365’s could be finding work with Greater Anglia soon. The bay platforms at Wickford for the Southminster branch are not long enough to accommodate a 5 car Class 720. Been talking to a conductor on the branch today and i was informed that they have heard about 365’s working the branch line instead of 720’s. Watch this space.

 

[delticdave]

365’s could be finding work with Greater Anglia soon. The bay platforms at Wickford for the Southminster branch are not long enough to accommodate a 5 car Class 720. Been talking to a conductor on the branch today and i was informed that they have heard about 365’s working the branch line instead of 720’s. Watch this space.

O/T perhaps, but wouldn't keeping a few Renatus 321's make more sense? Using 365's might be more comfortable, possibly quicker off the mark but considering the branch speed limits, that's not important & wouldn't require additional crew training.

What's going to happen re the rush-hour through trains, the down evening services seem to be an 8-car, a 12-car & one of the branch 4-car sets that's works (in service)
up to Liverpool St. during the rush hour. If that pattern is retained, then we might 1 x 5 car Aventura, 2 X 5-car then what ever works the branch shuttles for the last train.....

 

[Wolfie]

O/T perhaps, but wouldn't keeping a few Renatus 321's make more sense? Using 365's might be more comfortable, possibly quicker off the mark but considering the branch speed limits, that's not important & wouldn't require additional crew training.

What's going to happen re the rush-hour through trains, the down evening services seem to be an 8-car, a 12-car & one of the branch 4-car sets that's works (in service)
up to Liverpool St. during the rush hour. If that pattern is retained, then we might 1 x 5 car Aventura, 2 X 5-car then what ever works the branch shuttles for the last train.....

Perhaps marketing? They promised new rolling stock. The 365s are at least new to the franchise, the 321/Renatus definitely are not. Perhaps rental charges also.

 

[nxea321446]

The Renatus 321’s will be going off lease as planned towards the end of 2019, .I believe the 365’s will just be a temporary solution

 

[43096]

The Renatus 321’s will be going off lease as planned towards the end of 2019, .I believe the 365’s will just be a temporary solution

Utterly, utterly bonkers. Bringing in more different traction with the resulting training requirement whilst they are already going through total fleet replacement is just incomprehensible.

In any case, given Bombardier’s inability to get the Aventras to work for TfL, there has to be a knock-on to subsequent.production. I cannot see any PRM compliant EMUs leaving Anglia before 2020, and unless Bombardier get their act together there will be serious problems come 01/01/20.

 

[Chris125]

365’s could be finding work with Greater Anglia soon. The bay platforms at Wickford for the Southminster branch are not long enough to accommodate a 5 car Class 720.

I'd have thought one of their Stadler FLIRTs is more likely.

 

[delticdave]

I'd have thought one of their Stadler FLIRTs is more likely.

Quite possible, but the branch requires two units, even for the hourly Sunday service.

 

[Doomotron]

How about...

Vivarail Class 365

I apologise greatly.

 

[Wolfie]

How about...

Vivarail Class 365

I apologise greatly.

At least it wasn't class 442...

 

[306024]

Quite possible, but the branch requires two units, even for the hourly Sunday service.

FLIRTS was just one of the options being considered but would need some imaginative diagramming to cycle them back to Crown Point, however they are the only new fleet that fits in the bays at Wickford. Also training a whole load of Southend and probably Ilford drivers on another rather unusual traction could prove prohibitive, so perhaps the 365 rumour has some strength. The Renatus project has been a bit of a disaster underneath the glossy new interior, won’t be sorry to see those go.

 

[Meerkat]

How much too short is the platform?
Could you fix it with partial demolition of the station building, or would it require total demolition..
I assume having to add another track to the adjacent bridge over the road would be prohibitive.....unless there was an operational gain from being able to operate the branch without affecting the down Southend line??