Class 365 scrap movements + preservation discussion

[D365]

I think all railway types are historically interesting, they’ve all played important roles in making the way the railway is today, to varying extents. In an ideal world it would be good to have a class of each train kept going in preservation or in some usable way

In an ideal world maybe, but it needs volunteer time and money, which are very much limited resources.

 

[StephenHunter]

Far more likely to see a 165 or 166 preserved.

 

[Class15]

Far more likely to see a 165 or 166 preserved.

Indeeed, as a 165/166 could run under its own power.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

If anyone fancies having a Class 365 souvenir then these first class seats have appeared on eBay from 365524. I have no connection with the sale or seller.

British Rail Great Northern Class 365 First Class Seat Pair | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for British Rail Great Northern Class 365 First Class Seat Pair at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[D365]

If anyone fancies having a Class 365 souvenir then these first class seats have appeared on eBay from 365524. I have no connection with the sale or seller.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165459358310

Wonder which DMOC these seats came from. The one that was kept, or the one that got scrapped.

EDIT: The listing suggests that these seats are from the DMOC that East Kent Railway received.

 

[ashkeba]

I don’t know 365s from an operations point of view, so without a pantograph coach can the unit (highly unlikely I know) operate on the third rail as a 3 car? Is there more than just the pantograph on that vehicle?

365s could not operate on third rail for many years because vital wiring and details were lost in depot moves.

 

[43102EMR]

Any word on 541 as to whether it’s been cut up yet?

 

[365 Networker]

Any word on 541 as to whether it’s been cut up yet?

I can't find any reports of it being scrapped - perhaps someone in Rotherham can give an update on 365541.

 

[brad465]

The Wikipedia page has been slow to log which units have been scrapped, but it does now have all units as being scrapped, except the 3 carriages that have been preserved, and the article now has "were" rather than "are" that is expected for anything that ceases to exist/operate:

British Rail Class 365 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The British Rail Class 365 Networker Express were dual-voltage (25 kV AC and 750 V DC) electric multiple-unit passenger trains built by ABB at Holgate Road Carriage Works in 1994 and 1995 to operate services in South East England and on the Great Northern Route. These were the last trains to be built at the Holgate Road works before its closure. Due to the refurbished front end resembling a smiling face, the trains were nicknamed "Happy Trains" by enthusiasts.[7]

Continued...

 

[swt_passenger]

The Wikipedia page has been slow to log which units have been scrapped, but it does now have all units as being scrapped, except the 3 carriages that have been preserved, and the article now has "were" rather than "are" that is expected for anything that ceases to exist/operate:

British Rail Class 365 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As discussed in the case of 332s previously, Wiki do not consider it is in their remit to log details of individual unit scrapping.

They fought against regular changes during the HEx 332 scrapping period.

 

[365 Networker]

The Wikipedia page has been slow to log which units have been scrapped, but it does now have all units as being scrapped, except the 3 carriages that have been preserved, and the article now has "were" rather than "are" that is expected for anything that ceases to exist/operate:

British Rail Class 365 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia isn't always the most reliable source so I'm not sure that really confirms it has been scrapped.

 

[bramling]

I can't find any reports of it being scrapped - perhaps someone in Rotherham can give an update on 365541.

I have heard from a semi-reliable source that 365541 has entered the cutting area at Booths in the last week or so.

So it appears we are left with two vehicles from 365524 and one from 365540, plus possibly one from 365526 (seemingly vanished off the face of the earth, but may still exist as there’s been no report of it being disposed of).

 

[365 Networker]

I have heard from a semi-reliable source that 365541 has entered the cutting area at Booths in the last week or so.

So it appears we are left with two vehicles from 365524 and one from 365540, plus possibly one from 365526 (seemingly vanished off the face of the earth, but may still exist as there’s been no report of it being disposed of).

That's a shame, but thanks for the update.

 

[richardcoughla]

Any word on 541 as to whether it’s been cut up yet?

365541 65934 next one for the chop

https://twitter.com/Rail_Photter/status/1531008198995501056?t=y5jRDBeS4zqgVrnhVHkYQA&s=19

 

[43102EMR]

365541 65934 next one for the chop

https://twitter.com/Rail_Photter/status/1531008198995501056?t=y5jRDBeS4zqgVrnhVHkYQA&s=19

So I’ve seen… shame really - was hoping with the fact that it survived 6 months at Booths that something was lined up for it. Almost as if they didn’t want to scrap it…

 

[Ewan M]

365541 65934 next one for the chop

https://twitter.com/Rail_Photter/status/1531008198995501056?t=y5jRDBeS4zqgVrnhVHkYQA&s=19

That’ll probably be the last 365 vehicle to be scrapped! 365506 may have been the last one to go for scrap but unlike 541, it was probably gone within days courtesy of the excavators at Sims Newport

 

[bramling]

That’ll probably be the last 365 vehicle to be scrapped! 365506 may have been the last one to go for scrap but unlike 541, it was probably gone within days courtesy of the excavators at Sims Newport

Yes it’s a safe bet that 365506 will have gone pretty much on arrival at Sims.

The one remaining question mark is what has become of 65919, the remaining driving car from 365526. Last at Wolverton as far as is known, but that was some while back, it hasn’t been seen or heard about since.

 

[DanNCL]

What happened to the intermediate vehicle from a 365 that had been in GWR Green at Ilford?

 

[amwells]

What happened to the intermediate vehicle from a 365 that had been in GWR Green at Ilford?

Cut up October 2019 at Booths according to my records

 

[SolomonSouth]

Not sure why they had to go in the first place - they had a number of things going for them including:
1. Comfortable seats
2. Smooth ride
3. Decent room
4. Lots of seats - 805 in a 12-car set.
5. Fast acceleration - look at speed from 0:11 in this video:

I also heard from earlier threads that they are similar to 323s which can get 1 min 40 to 90mph on a flat track. In any case this is around the same as a 700/slightly better than a 387.
6. Clear 1st class with a benefit - bigger tables and seats.

The 387 offers air con, and a 110mph top speed but that's it. Why get rid of them? It was a mistake

 

[AzureOtsu]

Not sure why they had to go in the first place - they had a number of things going for them including:
1. Comfortable seats
2. Smooth ride
3. Decent room
4. Lots of seats - 805 in a 12-car set.
5. Fast acceleration - look at speed from 0:11 in this video:

I also heard from earlier threads that they are similar to 323s which can get 1 min 40 to 90mph on a flat track. In any case this is around the same as a 700/slightly better than a 387.
6. Clear 1st class with a benefit - bigger tables and seats.

The 387 offers air con, and a 110mph top speed but that's it. Why get rid of them? It was a mistake

No external cameras and a legacy chassis preventing cheap retrofit on a network attempting to go DOO

 

[Class360/1]

No external cameras and a legacy chassis preventing cheap retrofit on a network attempting to go DOO

And the lack of sockets

 

[Magdalia]

No external cameras and a legacy chassis preventing cheap retrofit on a network attempting to go DOO

The GN has been DOO since 1986.

But for many years it relied on platform infrastructure for this, cameras, screens and mirrors. There was a cost to maintain that infrastructure which has now gone because all trains now have onboard cameras.

But the main reason class 365s went in the bin is that they still used their original 1990s traction package and electronics. Maintenance became increasingly difficult over time. If the class 365s had been given a mid life new traction package then they might have survived, without that they were a liability.

 

[43096]

The GN has been DOO since 1986.

But for many years it relied on platform infrastructure for this, cameras, screens and mirrors. There was a cost to maintain that infrastructure which has now gone because all trains now have onboard cameras.

The cost hasn’t gone, it’s just been transferred from NR to the TOC, as have delay minutes associated with it. You can’t help but feel it’s the same reason NR was against electrification for so long - it moves cost from the TOC (Diesel engine maintenance) to NR (electrification infrastructure). See also ETCS.

 

[Magdalia]

The cost hasn’t gone, it’s just been transferred from NR to the TOC, as have delay minutes associated with it. You can’t help but feel it’s the same reason NR was against electrification for so long - it moves cost from the TOC (Diesel engine maintenance) to NR (electrification infrastructure). See also ETCS.

The cost to maintain that platform infrastructure has gone, though the TOC does now have a cost for maintenance of the onboard cameras. But once the majority of the fleet (classes 387/700/717) have onboard cameras, then maintenance of the platform infrastructure, just for a few trains, becomes disproportionate.

 

[AzureOtsu]

The GN has been DOO since 1986.

But for many years it relied on platform infrastructure for this, cameras, screens and mirrors. There was a cost to maintain that infrastructure which has now gone because all trains now have onboard cameras.

But the main reason class 365s went in the bin is that they still used their original 1990s traction package and electronics. Maintenance became increasingly difficult over time. If the class 365s had been given a mid life new traction package then they might have survived, without that they were a liability.

That and many other factors including GN cutting costs by removing DOO platform side equipment in favour of units with external cameras (387s)

 

[StephenHunter]

Air conditioning is pretty much required these days, I would say.

 

[SolomonSouth]

The GN has been DOO since 1986.

But for many years it relied on platform infrastructure for this, cameras, screens and mirrors. There was a cost to maintain that infrastructure which has now gone because all trains now have onboard cameras.

But the main reason class 365s went in the bin is that they still used their original 1990s traction package and electronics. Maintenance became increasingly difficult over time. If the class 365s had been given a mid life new traction package then they might have survived, without that they were a liability.

Their reliability was good as seen here: https://www.modernrailways.com/arti...anner Awards,often achieving six-figure MTINs.

I wouldn't say they were a liability at all based on that - in fact, the 700 is more of a liability being far less reliable. If anything needed reliability work, it was the 700.

 

[D365]

See also ETCS.

OT but doesn't that move the majority of failure modes onto the rolling stock?

 

[43096]

OT but doesn't that move the majority of failure modes onto the rolling stock?

Yes, which is my point - for the DOO kit putting cameras on the train does the same. In simple terms it makes it a "train fault" rather than a "fault with the signalling system" when explaining it to the punters.