Class 365 scrap movements + preservation discussion

[Domh245]

But would the 707s have moved if Stagecoach had retained the SW franchise ? The way I read it was it was First / MTR that didn't want them for whatever reason.

Yes, unless they wanted to keep them as a microfleet that didn't work certain services at certain times of day. As they can't put handrails on the ceiling, they weren't judged to meet the 0.25m^2/passenger capacity that was key to meeting the franchise requirements, so they had to go

Yet the class 700 - also a Desiro City - was selected for Thameslink where high capacity was needed due to heavy loadings and standing room on offer was a factor......

There's high standing capacity, and then there's high standing capacity. They suffice on Thameslink, but for the SW metro services they don't (or at least, didn't in the eyes of the DfT at the time of the franchise), though this is getting offtopic for 365 withdrawals!

 

[bramling]

707s have a new home, so the situation isn't all that ridiculous.

Albeit quite an awkward fit, and a new home which may not prove all that long-lived. Or else they’ve potentially tied themselves down to Desiro Cities when it comes to SE Metro fleet replacement, and will still have a batch of units older than the rest.

 

[Radley]

Every Sunday until 25 April two pairs of 365s will be out all day on KGX - PBO workings - this is due to the work at KGX limiting TLGN services to platforms 9-11 (8 car only).

Are you aware of the first workings of the morning that the two pairs of 365s operate?

Thanks in advance.

Daryl

 

[43074]

Just thinking about it logically, it doesn't make much sense. The DfT (who will no doubt have the say in what gets ordered now) have gone off the Desiro City due to the standing room issues. They can't get hold of Electrostars any more, so that means if a new fleet is ordered to replace them, it'll be a separate microfleet unlike the rest of the units in the area. Exactly what they don't need.

There is plenty of alternative stock in the short/medium term without having to order new trains for the job though, including another couple of fleets of Electrostars.

 

[D365]

Every Sunday until 25 April two pairs of 365s will be out all day on KGX - PBO workings - this is due to the work at KGX limiting TLGN services to platforms 9-11 (8 car only).

Does this mean that every KGX-PBO service on Sundays is formed by 2x365? Or are the 387s operating some of the PBO services?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Does this mean that every KGX-PBO service on Sundays is formed by 2x365? Or are the 387s operating some of the PBO services?

Theres a mix of 365s and 387s, as the earlier post says it’s only 2 pairs of 365s out.

 

[D365]

Theres a mix of 365s and 387s, as the earlier post says it’s only 2 pairs of 365s out.

Fair enough. Do you know if the 365s operate specific Sunday diagrams, or is it luck of the draw?

 

[Radley]

I was thinking that, because in the past two Sundays, the 365s tend to have ran at different times. (Not 100% on this though)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Does this mean that every KGX-PBO service on Sundays is formed by 2x365? Or are the 387s operating some of the PBO services?

Would it not perhaps be alongside the 700s instead of the 387s?

 

[Class 466]

Well they’re obviously on diagrams but they will change each week because of engineering works.

 

[D365]

Thanks. Reason for asking was to find out whether I could turn up on an April Sunday and expect a 365, or if I’d have to be lucky.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thanks. Reason for asking was to find out whether I could turn up on an April Sunday and expect a 365, or if I’d have to be lucky.

I suggest you asking in the morning on the TOPS allocation thread, I’m sure someone with access to the magic box will have a look for you on which services the 365s are on.

 

[bramling]

Fair enough. Do you know if the 365s operate specific Sunday diagrams, or is it luck of the draw?

They should be specific, because the diagrams don’t properly balance if not, because...

2x387 finish tonight at Peterborough Nene having done one KX to Peterborough trip after spending the day on Fen Line services.

This means 2x387 have to start from Peterborough Nene and finish elsewhere in order to balance.

To complicate the mix, in fact what appears to happen is 2x365 went from Peterborough Nene sidings to Hornsey yesterday, which presumably then allows 2x365 to start at Hornsey today and finish up back at Peterborough Nene sidings. Normally 365s haven’t started or finished their day at Hornsey since May 18 I don’t believe.

Put the wrong stock on the wrong diagram and it doesn’t balance, which means at some point something is going to find its way onto something it shouldn’t, either the driver not having the traction knowledge, or straying in territory it can’t (eg a 365 to Kings Lynn!).

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a reminder that this thread is for the discussion of the Class 365 withdrawal from service with Great Northern.

I've moved some speculative posts regarding their possible replacements to a new thread in the speculative ideas section:

(1) What should replace the Class 365 [Great Northern]? | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

 

[Retorus]

Honestly a little emotional about this, I grew up with these units.

 

[Class319&373]

Does anyone know if the GN 365s still utilise their dynamic braking? As I'd like to hope I could get a good final recording of the traction sequence in full.

 

[Aictos]

Does anyone know if the GN 365s still utilise their dynamic braking? As I'd like to hope I could get a good final recording of the traction sequence in full.

I like to know if the onboard announcements from WAGN are still possible to be played from the cab, announcements like catering, timetable change etc.. I would prefer a reasonable recording of them then the traction itself.

 

[Class 466]

Does anyone know if the GN 365s still utilise their dynamic braking? As I'd like to hope I could get a good final recording of the traction sequence in full.

The 6 units I’ve been on recently all had it isolated.

 

[D365]

Does anyone know if the GN 365s still utilise their dynamic braking? As I'd like to hope I could get a good final recording of the traction sequence in full.

As above, I think it’s unlikely. It’s been over a year since I last used a 365, but the vast majority were braking mechanically only...

Do you mind sending me a copy when you do so? I want to get a recording myself, but the only opportunity I’ll have is 25th April. And that’s if I don’t end up on a 387 instead.

 

[Hadders]

It'll be a sad day when the 365s finish. Since moving to Stevenage in the late 1990s I've travelled on the 365s thousands of times.

 

[317666]

Honestly a little emotional about this, I grew up with these units.

Likewise. Born in the mid-90s and grew up in Cambridge, so they were a big part of my childhood!

 

[ashkeba]

Put the wrong stock on the wrong diagram and it doesn’t balance, which means at some point something is going to find its way onto something it shouldn’t, either the driver not having the traction knowledge, or straying in territory it can’t (eg a 365 to Kings Lynn!).

365s used to go to Kings Lynn?

 

[Hadders]

365s used to go to Kings Lynn?

They did indeed but they don't any longer. I don't think they can these days but I#m sure @bramling will know the exact position.

 

[317666]

They did indeed but they don't any longer. I don't think they can these days but I#m sure @bramling will know the exact position.

I believe they can't due to the DOO monitors/mirrors on platforms on the Fen Line being decommissioned. 387s/700s have in-cab monitors so are still able to run through to Lynn.

 

[D365]

365s used to go to Kings Lynn?

Yes. For 20-odd years. They were the Great Northern premier stock until the 387s came along.

 

[gingerheid]

So what's the timescale by which GTR need new stock to return to the full timetable (on the assumption that they intend to)? May 2022?

Yes. For 20-odd years. They were the Great Northern premier stock until the 387s came along.

And in the eyes of a few afterwards too...

 

[Class319&373]

The 6 units I’ve been on recently all had it isolated.

As above, I think it’s unlikely. It’s been over a year since I last used a 365, but the vast majority were braking mechanically only...

Do you mind sending me a copy when you do so? I want to get a recording myself, but the only opportunity I’ll have is 25th April. And that’s if I don’t end up on a 387 instead.

Thanks for the info, its a shame about the dynamic braking.

And yes if I'm able to get a successful 365 recording before then, I'll share it with you in a post.

 

[365 Networker]

365 534 may still have dynamic braking enabled as it was in this video from a few weeks ago:-

However, it also depends on the driver if you hear the dynamic brake - if he releases and reapplies it too much it often cuts out.

I like to know if the onboard announcements from WAGN are still possible to be played from the cab, announcements like catering, timetable change etc.. I would prefer a reasonable recording of them then the traction itself.

The special announcements are all available from the site below:-

Class 365 Announcement Pack v1.0 – Alan Thomson Simulation

alanthomsonsim.com

You will need an account to download.

 

[D365]

Never saw a purple-cab 365 in service, that looks fantastic.

 

[Class 170101]

I believe they can't due to the DOO monitors/mirrors on platforms on the Fen Line being decommissioned. 387s/700s have in-cab monitors so are still able to run through to Lynn.

In addition Class 317s cannot head north of Ely for the same reason and have been replaced by Class 379s.