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Class 378 refresh

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theking

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So London Overgrounds fleet of class 378 are getting a refresh.

Will include new external livery, new seat covers with the moquette from the 710, deep clean and repainted grab poles.

Being carried out at Ilford depot, one a week.

First one being in service next month.
 
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XCTurbostar

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New livery or just a repaint? I’d expect the lights to become compliant and an Orange front if so.
 

Mikey C

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Much as I like my trains to be kept tip top, the 378s hardly need any work done to them, at a time when TfL are very short of money. The oldest cars are only 8/9 years old, and many are much newer.
 
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Much as I like my trains to be kept tip top, the 378s hardly need any work done to them, at a time when TfL are very short of money. The oldest cars are only 8/9 years old, and many are much newer.
Wow. I appreciate that trains get heavier use in London, but it does add grist to the mill of the London/Not London split in transport priorities.

Don't know if they're describing it as a full refurb, but it doesn't sound a million miles away from what Northern are calling an 'As New' refurb on their 33-year-old Sprinters.
 

ScotGG

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Well Southeastern Metro Networker's have never had a proper refurb in over 25 years and in many cases are grimy things and neither have the 376s at 12-13 and they are starting to look tired so the thought London gets all great stuff can be rested.
 

jeremyjh

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The trains see heavy use all day long. I'd be surprised if they were going to mess with the headlamps for the sole benefit of being able to paint the ends a different colour, but new seat covers and some attention to the interiors is likely justified.

I suspect that this refurbishment programme is as specified by the contract signed for the maintenance of the trains with Bombardier, back when the trains were still just drawings. This could well mean that the expense is built into the contract and the trains will see periodic refurbishment across the life of the contract regardless of subsequent changes in TfL's fortunes.
 

theking

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New livery or just a repaint? I’d expect the lights to become compliant and an Orange front if so.

Just a repaint as they're keeping the yellow front but there is a mock up picture floating about with it orange. Like the 710's
 

61653 HTAFC

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Much as I like my trains to be kept tip top, the 378s hardly need any work done to them, at a time when TfL are very short of money. The oldest cars are only 8/9 years old, and many are much newer.
I do wonder where the "mid-life" part of the OP comes from. Perhaps London is adopting a Japanese approach to rolling-stock? :rolleyes:
 

Far north 37

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I do wonder where the "mid-life" part of the OP comes from. Perhaps London is adopting a Japanese approach to rolling-stock? :rolleyes:
I was a bit thrown by that as well i would say them being midlife is a bit wide of the mark.
 

theking

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Come on here to give a bit of info (which i won't be doing in future) and all you lot are worried about is the word mid-life.

Okay its being done to improve the customer experience.
 
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I was sure I saw a 378 at Ilford in one of the sheds with an orange front. Suited it better than the 710. Couldn't find much info about it till I looked here. Maybe they are keeping it for a big surprise.
 

slick

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I was sure I saw a 378 at Ilford in one of the sheds with an orange front. Suited it better than the 710. Couldn't find much info about it till I looked here. Maybe they are keeping it for a big surprise.

Same, went in there on Tuesday and saw one in the shes as I came in the london end side of the depot...should be interesting.
 

plcd1

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The trains see heavy use all day long. I'd be surprised if they were going to mess with the headlamps for the sole benefit of being able to paint the ends a different colour, but new seat covers and some attention to the interiors is likely justified.

I suspect that this refurbishment programme is as specified by the contract signed for the maintenance of the trains with Bombardier, back when the trains were still just drawings. This could well mean that the expense is built into the contract and the trains will see periodic refurbishment across the life of the contract regardless of subsequent changes in TfL's fortunes.

Yep I expect this is precisely the case. As the trains are likely to remain in London on the same services for their full service life it makes some sense to give them apporpriate interventions to keep the quality up and ensure things like cleanliness / ambience / customer satisfaction remains high. It's worth noting that demand has soared on LO services since these trains came into service so they may be seeing a bit more wear and tear than originally envisaged.
 

slick

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Personally i think it looks amazing...looks like a completley different train..The black sides around the windows to the roof look muchh better too.
 
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colchesterken

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How can TFL get a contract that works so well, trains on time clean and DOO,
Could that type of contract be the way forward, I was chatting to an overground driver who used to be in banking he said it was a safer job
Mr Grayling please talk to Ken,Boris & Sadique to see how it should be done
 

DenmarkRail

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For your viewing pleasure...or pain
5_EC9377_F_3924_44_D5_9_F55_23_B806_A1_FC75.jpg


E427790_A_3135_4_E3_C_9_C3_B_C3_E028412835.jpg


Personally i think it looks amazing...looks like a completley different train..The black sides around the windows to the roof look muchh better too.

Very nice!

How can TFL get a contract that works so well, trains on time clean and DOO,
Could that type of contract be the way forward, I was chatting to an overground driver who used to be in banking he said it was a safer job
Mr Grayling please talk to Ken,Boris & Sadique to see how it should be done

I would possibly say the reason is down to how much control TfL actually give to operators, compared to how much the DfT do... TfL are fairly restricted, where as national rail operations are much less controlled.
 

plcd1

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How can TFL get a contract that works so well, trains on time clean and DOO,
Could that type of contract be the way forward, I was chatting to an overground driver who used to be in banking he said it was a safer job
Mr Grayling please talk to Ken,Boris & Sadique to see how it should be done

It's not rocket science. TfL specify a tightly specced and measured performance regime covering a wide range of attributes. They are also relatively hands on in terms of checking what is actually being done. I think they have learnt a load of lessons over the years from PPP, DLR sub contracting and also how they track and measure performance on the bus network and Tube. None of it is perfect and it's clear there have been a range of issues over the years. TfL has also had the ability to spend its way out of certain issues although that's pretty much gone now.

The important difference is that TfL know they are the client, they act like the client and they have their own means of measuring, checking and analysing whatever the operator may submit or claim. TfL are also able to take a long term view as they have secured the right to operate these services in the long term and can therefore take a view longer than one franchise. The operator is also not obsessed with the revenue bottom line although they have an incentive to minimise ticket fraud. The main danger for TfL is an operator may become overly obsessed with costs in their regime leading to some unsatisfactory decisions. I assume TfL have tried to reduce that risk by ensuring there are minimum standards across a wide variety of attributes to prevent the cost base being eroded. I suspect TfL would be happy to see "acceptable" cost savings and probably has a mechanism to share in the benefits but would need to agree to any such savings. Overground and TfL Rail aren't perfect by any means and I think the contract with Arriva is going to struggle compared to how LOROL performed but I'd rather have TfL's approach than what we see on other urban rail networks in the UK.

The Dft say they are NOT the client despite speccing the franchises. They say everything's down to the TOC or Network Rail even though DfT dictate rolling stock policy and deployment and obviously control NR's budget and spending. DfT say they are "hands off" with franchisees and I suspect they are on a number of things like properly managing the contract, verifying performance is what the TOC says it is and actually getting out there and seeing what the heck is going on. Meanwhile in a lot of unhelpful ways the DfT are far too "hands on". It's no wonder there are issues on a number of franchises when the body that actually is responsible for railways, despite its denials, doesn't know what it wants to do or why.
 

class387

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For your viewing pleasure...or pain
5_EC9377_F_3924_44_D5_9_F55_23_B806_A1_FC75.jpg


E427790_A_3135_4_E3_C_9_C3_B_C3_E028412835.jpg


Personally i think it looks amazing...looks like a completley different train..The black sides around the windows to the roof look muchh better too.
Completely unrecognizable from an unrefurbished one, but not bad at all. Though it is very difficult to judge whether or not it looks nice until we see the the sides.

Looking forward to seeing the interior.
 

Domh245

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Any indication of if they'll get USB sockets and new PIS displays like the 710s, or will they only share the moquette?
 

61653 HTAFC

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For your viewing pleasure...or pain
5_EC9377_F_3924_44_D5_9_F55_23_B806_A1_FC75.jpg


E427790_A_3135_4_E3_C_9_C3_B_C3_E028412835.jpg


Personally i think it looks amazing...looks like a completley different train..The black sides around the windows to the roof look muchh better too.
Makes the corners/edges look way more rounded... agree it looks like a different train in the photos. If a refurbished Northern 156 or a Merseyrail unit can fool some into thinking it's a new train then this definitely will!
 

Ethano92

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For your viewing pleasure...or pain
5_EC9377_F_3924_44_D5_9_F55_23_B806_A1_FC75.jpg


E427790_A_3135_4_E3_C_9_C3_B_C3_E028412835.jpg


Personally i think it looks amazing...looks like a completley different train..The black sides around the windows to the roof look muchh better too.
I like it although i did always like the massive yellow fronts on the units, they were just so bright, I loved it. This looks really modern though and the orange seems to swipe up the sides which I quite like.
 
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