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Class 378's to be shortened to 4 cars and used on GOBLIN?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by MatthewRead, 26 Dec 2018.

  1. class387

    class387 Established Member

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    No DOO monitors
     
  2. simple simon

    simple simon Member

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  3. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The compulsory once a page reminder on the subject!
     
  4. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

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    A quick virtual field trip of the ELL on traksy.uk (enter "Canada Water" and go to the map) shows the New Cross services gunk-ing up the ELL core by their presence. They are the easy ones to lose. Before someone talks about getting held at Silwood Junction, there is probably an ex-New Cross service preventing the other train from getting clear either at all or as quickly as it could (on single/double yellows) rather than greens.
     
  5. theking

    theking Member

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    New cross trains cause no problems on the east london line they are pathed to pass inbetween services to and from new cross gate.

    The only reason they get held is if a train is late from new cross gate so it can't go onto the up, this in turn may delay a train from surrey quays to new cross gate.

    The reason why everything is slow into the core is because of silwood junction. The auto route setting for trains from new cross gate setting does not allow enough time once the train has slowed down for the red when the signal pulls straight off to a green for it then to go into surrey quays and depart properly ontime.

    This is also the case why if you depart surrey quays towards new cross gate dead on time you always approach canal junction at red and then it steps up to green as the auto route setting is timed later.

    As saw on new years day when no clapham trains were running there were no hold ups around silwood junction as the points were locked.

    Trains on the east london line will always encounter single yellows and reds just because it's 3 aspect, how short the signal sections are and how intensive the service is.

    I still don't know how people can justify messing up the other MAJOR branches of the Overground for a minor branch line in east london.

    People will not be happy if they are left standing at platforms waiting to get on multiple trains on the north and east london lines and people on the gob are traveling in fresh air on 4 car 378's that's for sure.
     
  6. Emblematic

    Emblematic Member

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    They aren't "gunk-ing up" the ELL core. The core needs the current TPH and more, most critically between Canada Water and Whitechapel. You can't "lose" these trains, cutting the New Cross service removes 25% of the core capacity, which would result in ridiculous overcrowding in the peaks.
    Better to think of New Cross as a convenient point to turn trains close to the core to keep intensity high - similar to the Dalston Junction terminators at the northern end. This isn't to say that the service from New Cross isn't both useful and well used in itself, but even if it wasn't you would most likely keep the service. It is noticeable that the New Cross trains are the least heavily loaded at Canada Water, but that's good as you cannot always get on the others, so it's handy to know that you should be able to get on one train every 15 minutes at worst. The Jubilee at Canada Water can be far worse, queueing to get on to the 5th or 6th train is not uncommon.
     
  7. colchesterken

    colchesterken Member

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    " No DOO monitors "

    That is why I want to be the fat controller.. Why not have a second person on board with a red and green flag ( you could call them a guard ) to supervise the safe departure
    When I was working, If there was a problem management told us what they wanted to do and it got done sometimes with overtime, or days off there was always a way, the job got done !!
     
  8. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

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    The trouble is that London's public transport system generally has become grossly overcrowded due to a mob-ocratic desire to keep fares low. A start would be to put the whole of the ELL core into Zone 1 only. Extending congestion charging and/or a minimum fare would also help to keep demand in check. It could even cover the cost of future capacity improvements.
     
  9. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The "slight" problem is that TfL have the data (and ORR, RSSB and DfT know they have) that shows DOO with 4car 378s on the NLL is safer in terms of fewer PTI incidents than 3 car 378s with a Guard but with significantly higher loading due to passenger growth on the 4 (and later 5 ) car units on any metric you choose to use... (e.g. accidents per passenger per doorway etc.)
    Try authorising a less safe method of working!
     
  10. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The biggest issues is that the average London Overground Journey costs TfL £2.00 to provide but the average fare (after daily caps etc) is just £1.17 hence an average subsidy requirement of 83p /journey.
    Putting it into Zone 1 isn't going to solve much and would also cause a lot of other issues too.
     
  11. cav1975

    cav1975 Member

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    OK but is it safer to have grossly overcrowded 2 car units that drive people onto the roads?
     
  12. Electrojuniper

    Electrojuniper Member

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    So 2nd nights run over the GOB and NLR tonight. Same times.
     
  13. simple simon

    simple simon Member

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    Class 378 platform train interface (PTI) for the Gospel Oak - Barking Line. LDNOverground 378232 stops at the (unwrapped) 4-car stop car marker at Queen's Road, working 501T 0110 Gospel Oak - Barking. Capitalstar will operate new electric services this month.

    Viewing the tweet will reveal a short video film.

    https://twitter.com/cmpd_date/status/1081003186557800448
     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2019
  14. simple simon

    simple simon Member

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    It's a Bombardier bonanza! London Underground S7 arrives at platform 2 and London Overground 378232 arrives at bay platform No.1 at Barking station working the 558R 22:16 Willesden TMD - Barking.

    Viewing the tweet will reveal a short video film

    https://twitter.com/cmpd_date/status/1080627452458790912

    Edit to add: This tweet was by CMPD... when I retweeted it I added the following:

    ...and on the left an unidentified London Underground S7 train (either District or Hammersmith & City line) arrives at platforms 2 and 3

    Unless its terminating here it will open its doors on both sides of the train!
    (cross platform interchange with C2C on the opposite platform)
     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2019
  15. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Those codes are meaningless, all FoC-operated services have their real headcode replaced with something similar on public feeds, in order to ensure that any potentially commercially-sensitive information is obfuscated.
     
  16. 87015

    87015 Established Member

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    What the claim on PTI testing based on? Stopping isn’t that.
     
  17. Electrojuniper

    Electrojuniper Member

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    Unit out again tonight, next Monday and Tuesday.
     
  18. MatthewRead

    MatthewRead On Moderation

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    When will the 378's begin carrying passengers on the GOBLIN line may I ask?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5 Jan 2019
  19. liam456

    liam456 Member

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    Just wondering, what sort of sensitive info could you get from a headcode? Won't it just show a max speed and destination?
     
  20. marko2

    marko2 Member

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    Nuclear flask trains and the Royal train spring to mind.
     
  21. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    For example, one could piece together which path(s) a FoC is using for certain origin/destination pairs and gain insight into their fleet decisions, and thus the relative importance of certain contracts.
     
  22. liam456

    liam456 Member

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    Thanks for the insight, rather interesting!
     
  23. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Are there plans for additional 378's to be shortened to 4-car - depending of course on the outcome of trials on 232?
     
  24. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Not sure about Nuclear trains, but the Royal train simply doesn't appear at all (except on signaller's workstations).
     
  25. simple simon

    simple simon Member

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    Do they have any spare trains? Especially with one away for refresh, new livery, etc...
     
  26. XCTurbostar

    XCTurbostar Member

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    I believe the re-fresh program has been halted.
     
  27. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Yes, I thought the refresh program had been halted.
     
  28. Electrojuniper

    Electrojuniper Member

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    Refresh work has currently been halted. PTI work is being completed tonight. Last weeks runs were for core functionality only.
     
  29. Electrojuniper

    Electrojuniper Member

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    F02324F3-8DEC-4428-B985-22A83F39B809.jpeg
    Further testing last night. Passenger information system operating
     
  30. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Thanks for posting. Guess entry into service is imminent then?
     

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