Class 387 to GN

[cjmillsnun]

People in SWT's area managed with 4 cars of 8 (or even 12), or 5 cars of 10, over about a ten year period between the stock being introduced until the full carriage level ASDO was fitted last year.

I don't recall passcomms every journey, or any journey come to that. Perhaps most real passengers can actually cope with the situation, as long as there are suitable announcements onboard and information displays at stations?

TBF SWT's area has been using trains in multiple and boarding and alighting from specific parts of the train for decades. They did it with the slammers.

Same as with Southern and SouthEastern

 

[Philip Phlopp]

How about 2x Class 387s at 110mph?

ECML yes.

I don't think it's the ECML that's the issue - I think it's the route to Cambridge and Kings Lynn which is the problem. The uplift as it's set on the Class 387 units is too high, regardless of speed.

 

[D365]

Yes, the class 700 looks to be using a Strassenbahn Pantograph or something similar. Whereas the class 387 seems to be using a new developed version of the Bombardier Pantograph.

Pretty sure that Siemens is still using a Brecknell Willis pantograph, as does Bombardier. Rolling stock manufacturers don't tend to develop their own gear, BW is pretty much the standard in Britain.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Pretty sure that Siemens is still using a Brecknell Willis pantograph, as does Bombardier. Rolling stock manufacturers don't tend to develop their own gear, BW is pretty much the standard in Britain.

They are, and it's written into the requirements for the MML electrification and upgrade work on the ECML - 3 Brecknell Willis High Speed Mark 2 Pantographs or TSI compliant alternatives for 110mph, 2 or TSI compliant alternatives for 125mph operation.

Hitachi have their own (or a Japanese design) which is used on the Class 395 but not the Class 80x units (it too is a BR/BW High Speed pan).

 

[Class 170101]

ECML yes.

I don't think it's the ECML that's the issue - I think it's the route to Cambridge and Kings Lynn which is the problem. The uplift as it's set on the Class 387 units is too high, regardless of speed.

Does this mean the 387s are consequuently limited to 100mph between Kings Cross and Hitchin because of issues with the 110mph pantograph between Hitchin and Kings Lynn?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Does this mean the 387s are consequuently limited to 100mph between Kings Cross and Hitchin because of issues with the 110mph pantograph between Hitchin and Kings Lynn?

Don't know.

 

[43074]

Does this mean the 387s are consequuently limited to 100mph between Kings Cross and Hitchin because of issues with the 110mph pantograph between Hitchin and Kings Lynn?

I'm pretty sure I've seen it suggested that the 110mph capability of the 387s is why they are proposed for ECML express services rather than the 377s, if that's the case I doubt they'll be limited to 100mph, although don't quote me on that.

 

[D365]

Isn't it more the fact that they went spare since GWR changed their plans? It makes more sense for Southern to then take back the 377s.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I'm pretty sure I've seen it suggested that the 110mph capability of the 387s is why they are proposed for ECML express services rather than the 377s, if that's the case I doubt they'll be limited to 100mph, although don't quote me on that.

It will be pantograph dependent. If it's just the head which is changed it might be possible, if they've changed the dampener settings and/or uplift force settings, then probably not.

 

[Class377/5]

Isn't it more the fact that they went spare since GWR changed their plans? It makes more sense for Southern to then take back the 377s.

They didn't go spare because of GWR plans. Bit more complex than that.

 

[philjo]

One of the 387s was in the carriage sidings at Welwyn when I went past earlier. Didn't see which one.

 

[Class377/5]

One of the 387s was in the carriage sidings at Welwyn when I went past earlier. Didn't see which one.

I was sent a pic of 104 there.

EDIT:

Just seen 387104 at WGC.

 

[317 forever]

Now that these 387s are remaining with TSGN, GWR are getting new ones for Paddington - Hayes & Harlington services. I know these start on September 5th and, although doubtful, I hope they will run on Saturdays too.

 

[D365]

Now that these 387s are remaining with TSGN, GWR are getting new ones for Paddington - Hayes & Harlington services. I know these start on September 5th and, although doubtful, I hope they will run on Saturdays too.

There is a thread for general Class 387 discussion, this one was created because of a desire for more information regarding the transfer to Great Northern.

 

[Class377/5]

Now that these 387s are remaining with TSGN, GWR are getting new ones for Paddington - Hayes & Harlington services. I know these start on September 5th and, although doubtful, I hope they will run on Saturdays too.

Being introduced on a peak only service initially IIRC.

 

[crazystripe]

Do we have any indication as to whether the driver training is progressing as intended, and whether any unforeseen issues have arisen?

Do we know when the first 387 will enter service?

 

[A0wen]

So nothing to do with Welwyn services then. I always thought it would make sense for Welwyn stoppers to be extended to Stevenage/Letchworth calling all stations so the Cambridge and Peterborough trains can omit Welwyn North and maybe Knebworth (the 2tph Hatfield/WGC-Stevenage isn't adequate in my view, especially since the 797 bus no longer runs).

The stopping pattern north of WGC to Stevenage etc has be 2 tph for donkeys years - at least as far back as the electrified service in 1978.

I assume if there was demand for additional services between WGC & Stevenage / Hitchin they would have been introduced by now, but instead the demand is actually towards London.

Your point about the 797 is a complete red-herring, since it only served WGC for a short period of time about 10 years ago, it never served Welwyn village centre and never served Knebworth. And in the days when it went to Cambridge, it also avoided Hitchin and ran direct from Stevenage to Baldock.

The main bus service between Hatfield and Stevenage (300 / 301) is every 15 minutes so is more frequent than the service which was on offer back in the mid 80s when the 300 and 303 were hourly each, so 2 buses / hour between Stevenage and Hatfield as opposed to the 4 / hour now, with various Green Line services which ran bi-hourly etc.

 

[class387]

The stopping pattern north of WGC to Stevenage etc has be 2 tph for donkeys years - at least as far back as the electrified service in 1978.

I assume if there was demand for additional services between WGC & Stevenage / Hitchin they would have been introduced by now, but instead the demand is actually towards London.

Your point about the 797 is a complete red-herring, since it only served WGC for a short period of time about 10 years ago, it never served Welwyn village centre and never served Knebworth. And in the days when it went to Cambridge, it also avoided Hitchin and ran direct from Stevenage to Baldock.

The main bus service between Hatfield and Stevenage (300 / 301) is every 15 minutes so is more frequent than the service which was on offer back in the mid 80s when the 300 and 303 were hourly each, so 2 buses / hour between Stevenage and Hatfield as opposed to the 4 / hour now, with various Green Line services which ran bi-hourly etc.

300 takes an hour, so it will almost always be quicker to wait for the next train.

 

[philjo]

I think a 387 went through letchworth towards Cambridge about 9:15 yesterday morning. A 365 was in platform 1 which blocked my view. Looked like a 387 disappearing into the distance along the line.

 

[jopsuk]

looking at RTT, there seems to have been an STP ECS from Hornsey to Cambridge, that sat at Cambridge platform 2 for forty minutes, then headed to King Cross ECS, then to Royston, where it terminating at Platform 1 meant a down Cambridge service had to use Platform 2. It then went to Welwyn Carriage Sidings, where it becomes impossible to track further

 

[Triumph]

Do we have any indication as to whether the driver training is progressing as intended, and whether any unforeseen issues have arisen?

Do we know when the first 387 will enter service?

When driver training is complete, and as that has only just started it won't be for a couple of months.

The 321 replacement should have started on 3rd September! but as there replacement was changed from 377's to 387's at a later date everything is running very late.

Plus the ongoing problems with the introduction of the 700's isn't helping.
Next week there should have been 9 in service but at the moment there is still only 5 in service.
7 should be in service by mid next week. Which is still 2 weeks behind schedule.

 

[Class377/5]

When driver training is complete, and as that has only just started it won't be for a couple of months.

The 321 replacement should have started on 3rd September! but as there replacement was changed from 377's to 387's at a later date everything is running very late.

Plus the ongoing problems with the introduction of the 700's isn't helping.
Next week there should have been 9 in service but at the moment there is still only 5 in service.
7 should be in service by mid next week. Which is still 2 weeks behind schedule.

That's not actually true. The GN cascade has occurred by using 387/2 to back fill to allow GN to receive units. NR instance on changing the pans helped slow the process down as well.

As for your figures, they are wrong, very wrong. Monday for a start should have seen 7 units in service if it wasn't a bank holiday so Tuesday will now see the increase. Not sure how you can't that as mid week. Your numbers for units 'should' have been in service is guess work as its wrong.

Note if the 377 were still being introduced, they were always supposed to be cascaded after the first 387s units to the GWR. So the GN cascade was always supposed to be around now any way. Different is they will be more capable units, more of them so the GN gets a better deal.

So the GN introduction is not this magically weeks behind but fairly on time with September always being a target anyway.

 

[A0wen]

300 takes an hour, so it will almost always be quicker to wait for the next train.

Always been the case.

Given WGC - Hitchin is about a 15 minute journey the bus has never been able to compete on journey time.

The bus is, however, able to serve the points between the stations and serve Welwyn Village - which is nowhere near Welwyn North station.

I maintain - your point about the 797 is a red herring - it only ever ran hourly at the most and missed Knebworth, Welwyn Village and WGC - therefore unless you were simply travelling Stevenage - Hatfield (or vice versa) it was pretty useless.

And I still don't believe there is a demand for additional northbound services from Hatfield / WGC to Stevenage / Hitchin - except in the evening peak where trains arriving from London will still be fairly full.

 

[jopsuk]

Looks like there's more runs to Cambridge today? Anyone know the official testing & training status? When's the first passenger run penciled in for?

 

[crazystripe]

Can anyone give any updates on how the driver training on the GN is progressing and whether there's any news on when the first 387s will enter service (and on which routes/diagrams)?

 

[Class377/5]

As far as I know nothing major has occurred thus far in testing. Currently on targetbut I don't want to jinx it.

 

[jamieP]

As far as I know nothing major has occurred thus far in testing. Currently on targetbut I don't want to jinx it.

Considering they were meant to be in traffic this month I dont think there currently on target.

 

[D365]

Considering they were meant to be in traffic this month I dont think there currently on target.

We're not even halfway through the month yet! Seeing as GWR have got their first units into service, I don't think GN will be far behind.

 

[luap]

I did spot that one in Hornsey seems to have had the Thameslink external branding removed, could this possibly be in preparation of applying Great Northern branding?

 

[jamieP]

We're not even halfway through the month yet! Seeing as GWR have got their first units into service, I don't think GN will be far behind.

Should have said this week then rather than this month and last I heard it has been put back till next month.