Tilt was implemented with the summer 2005 timetable I believe. The EPS limits existed from 2002 though.Does anyone recall how the 390s were rolled out - in particular, at what point did they switch on the tilt and start 125mph ops? I am aware that they ran for a period without tilt and at 110mph.
Yes, minus the Trailer StandardI believe they started out as 8 car before being lengthened to 9 car.
Yes, all 9-car by that point.My first passenger runs in these were early 2004, and they were 8 coaches to begin with, meaning frequnt standing - only really 3.5 standard class coaches equivalent when the train manager office and shop were considered.
They were rolled out slowly in 04 and 05 with perhaps 1 train in 4 being a 390 to begin with.
In their early days the scrolling passenger display also showed the travel speed, I never saw it show above 108mph.
I think full 125mph tilt service started in autumn 2006, and also think they had all been lengthened to 9 coaches by then, although the 4 tracking didnt completely finish for another year or two. There will be people here with more accurate knowledge than me on this!
The first revenue earning passenger with a 390 on Euston/Glasgow was on January the 5th, 2004. The services were 1S55 0830 Euston - Glasgow and its return working 1M31 1535 Glasgow - Euston with 390004 having the honours.I recall Glasgow Central got its first 390 in regular service in early 2004(Started as one service per day) and it was all 390 by Dec 04.
Thank you. That’s interesting regarding be travel speed. I wonder why that is no longer shown? Perhaps it had been intended to show 140mph running and 124mph doesn’t look so good.My first passenger runs in these were early 2004, and they were 8 coaches to begin with, meaning frequnt standing - only really 3.5 standard class coaches equivalent when the train manager office and shop were considered.
They were rolled out slowly in 04 and 05 with perhaps 1 train in 4 being a 390 to begin with.
In their early days the scrolling passenger display also showed the travel speed, I never saw it show above 108mph.
I think full 125mph tilt service started in autumn 2006, and also think they had all been lengthened to 9 coaches by then, although the 4 tracking didnt completely finish for another year or two. There will be people here with more accurate knowledge than me on this!
As per the XC Voyager situation at the same time, the issue was rising passenger numbers encouraged by new trains and improved service frequency.An eight car 390, I can't believe they were considering keeping them a mix of 8 or 9 car. Even before COVID, some 11 car services were extremely busy, even more so on the current 9 car services.
Wasn't the reason for tilt being turned off due to a few issues resulting in certain coaches being stuck in the tilted position?
I was involved in the commissioning of the 390s at Asfordby Test Centre (Old Dalby Test Track). Originally 2 x pre-series trains were produced and sent to Asfordby (PS01 and PS02). PS01 was a 7 car set without tilt enabled, PS02 was 8 cars with tilt enabled. These undertook extensive testing from 2001 onwards. They were at times used for testing on the WCML and were numbered 390 001 (PS01) and 390 002 (PS02). Once the production sets were being built, numbered 390 003 onwards, 001 and 002 continued testing at Asfordby. Each production set had to complete either 1000 or 2000 miles fault free running before it was released into traffic. If there was a fault, the counter was reset. During this time 001 and 002 were sent back to Washwood Heath to be rebuilt and brought up to specification, before release in to traffic as 390 001 and 390 002. Hope this helps.Does anyone recall how the 390s were rolled out - in particular, at what point did they switch on the tilt and start 125mph ops? I am aware that they ran for a period without tilt and at 110mph.
Thank youI was involved in the commissioning of the 390s at Asfordby Test Centre (Old Dalby Test Track). Originally 2 x pre-series trains were produced and sent to Asfordby (PS01 and PS02). PS01 was a 7 car set without tilt enabled, PS02 was 8 cars with tilt enabled. These undertook extensive testing from 2001 onwards. They were at times used for testing on the WCML and were numbered 390 001 (PS01) and 390 002 (PS02). Once the production sets were being built, numbered 390 003 onwards, 001 and 002 continued testing at Asfordby. Each production set had to complete either 1000 or 2000 miles fault free running before it was released into traffic. If there was a fault, the counter was reset. During this time 001 and 002 were sent back to Washwood Heath to be rebuilt and brought up to specification, before release in to traffic as 390 001 and 390 002. Hope this helps.
Isn’t it also 2 track between Coventry and Birmingham? Madness.I'm sure December 2008 saw the introduction of three per hour to Manchester and Birmingham.
Don't forget that the WCML is still briefly three-track between Rugby and Nuneaton.
Isn’t it also 2 track between Coventry and Birmingham? Madness.
Presumably because it's a significant capacity bottleneck.Why madness?
I'm sure December 2008 saw the introduction of three per hour to Manchester and Birmingham.
Presumably because it's a significant capacity bottleneck.
Presumably because it's a significant capacity bottleneck.
My memory is that Dec 2004 was the first "accelerated" 125mph timetable including tilt.
That's when the North Wales service went up from 3tpd to 5tpd using Voyagers and a hauled 390 on the peak service.
Yes this is why madness - some of our biggest cities, and particularly the connection between London and Birmingham (no1 and no2 city), has poor infra, full of compromises that holds back growth and opportunity, that should have been fixed long ago. At least HS2 starts to remedy that. I think double tracking Birmingham - Coventry is on the wish list of various schemes too, eg Midlands Connect.Well, New St is at capacity too, so if there were more tracks between Cov and Birmingham, the only benefit would be to avoid the skip stopping as @Ianno87 says, which would of course slow down many journeys. The two trains an hour that terminate at International could go on to Coventry, although what you do with them there would be another issue.
The rollout of the 390s at 110mph was staged since the TASS Control system was not instantly fitted to the track to activate the train tilt system. When it was phased in at locations the speed increased to a max of 125mph, with enhanced speeds on curves.Also when Manchester-Euston went to 2tph all day.
EPS schedules to/from Glasgow didn't start until Dec 2005, IIRX.
To the best of my memory, they were about 8 coaches plus DVT, but it was a while ago now...I'd forgotten that some early 390 formations were 8 cars only.
How long were the loco hauled Mk2 and Mk3 formations they replaced?
I'd forgotten that some early 390 formations were 8 cars only.
How long were the loco hauled Mk2 and Mk3 formations they replaced?
The Mk2F sets were mostly:I'd forgotten that some early 390 formations were 8 cars only.
How long were the loco hauled Mk2 and Mk3 formations they replaced?
I'd forgotten that some early 390 formations were 8 cars only.
How long were the loco hauled Mk2 and Mk3 formations they replaced?
Though the 8-car Pendolinos were arguably more wasteful, none of the cars seating any more than 62 in Standard.To add to the answers above, the Mk2 sets all had seats aligned to windows, which although good for seeing out, wasn’t great for capacity. A standard Mk 2 TSO had 64 seats, FO had 42.
To add to the answers above, the Mk2 sets all had seats aligned to windows, which although good for seeing out, wasn’t great for capacity. A standard Mk 2 TSO had 64 seats, FO had 42.
Especially bad as the Mk2s are 20m, rather than 23m...Though the 8-car Pendolinos were arguably more wasteful, none of the cars seating any more than 62 in Standard.
I haven't quite got this. The Mk2 vehicles were designed the proper way, do the vehicle layout, which was as efficient as they come, 8x8 bays in the SO, entrances and loos at the end. Then, having done that, you determine the window positions. Not the other way round.To add to the answers above, the Mk2 sets all had seats aligned to windows, which although good for seeing out, wasn’t great for capacity. A standard Mk 2 TSO had 64 seats, FO had 42.