Class 395 Javelin - Opinions

[Bletchleyite]

You are correct but to allow this to happen would require an on-board system to allow the train to distinguish between station stops and signal stops.

Why? All other pressure-sealed stock in the UK (that I know of) just releases below 5 km/h. It's quite noticeable on Voyagers where you get outside noise on slowing down.

Though TBH an easy enough fix would be to make the button do something when pressed. On Pendolinos, where you get a delay for the step to deploy, the button flashes when you press it.

A third option would be to start releasing the cam when the doors are released, which would make it a second or two quicker by the time the passenger gets to the button.

 

[Bletchleyite]

considering the fact that most trains now have a delay timer built into their door systems to prevent immediate release when the command has been given. Doors are being deliberately slowed down.

Are they? I haven't noticed this.

 

[BestWestern]

You are correct but to allow this to happen would require an on-board system to allow the train to distinguish between station stops and signal stops. I also suspect that any system that would require the driver to commence the door opening process while the train is still in motion would not pass a risk assessment short of many "belts and braces" being added to the system or more likely full automation of the door opening process (yikes!). Would the few seconds saved at each stop merit the expense of providing the desired modification? It's an interesting question!

I'm fairly certain the 800 door seals deflate at slow speed, regardless of whether arriving at a station or not. The same principle applies with door bolts on Class 180s, and there is what sounds like an air valve operation on Desiro stock at slow speed. This is purely speed related, and happens regardless of where the train is at the time. It is presumably deemed entirely safe due it being a separate function to the actual door release operation.

 

[paul1609]

Civils are the major cost of any overhead electrification scheme. HS1 equipment is likely to be highly specialised and not compatible with ‘classic’ infrastructure.

Except that Ashford International Station already has platforms 3 to 6 equipped with pretty standard looking overheads. The overheads on HS1 are surely just the same as the rest of the French TGV system (and look a lot less bulky than whats currently being installed on GW!)? Given that you are probably only going to have a maximum of 2 x 6 car units in the Marshlink section I reckon theres a pretty good chance that you could just use the feed to Ashford station which must be designed for the demand for 2 x 16 cars 373 plus 2 x 12 car 395s. Its not as if the marshlink demand is likely to be that high, currently the line has a maximum line speed of 60 mph, 40 mph beyond Doleham. Ok you might want to restore the pre rationalisation speed limit of 85 but even so.

 

[paul1609]

I'm fairly certain the 800 door seals deflate at slow speed, regardless of whether arriving at a station or not. The same principle applies with door bolts on Class 180s, and there is what sounds like an air valve operation on Desiro stock at slow speed. This is purely speed related, and happens regardless of where the train is at the time. It is presumably deemed entirely safe due it being a separate function to the actual door release operation.

Maximum closing speed through North Downs tunnel with an Eurostar is over 300 mph. Im not sure you'd want to be stopped at a signal with the 395 doors unsealed when a 16 car goes the other way at 170 mph!

 

[Agent_Squash]

Maximum closing speed through North Downs tunnel with an Eurostar is over 300 mph.

They really have been upgrading HS1 recently!

 

[D365]

Given that you are probably only going to have a maximum of 2 x 6 car units in the Marshlink section I reckon theres a pretty good chance that you could just use the feed to Ashford station which must be designed for the demand for 2 x 16 cars 373 plus 2 x 12 car 395s. Its not as if the marshlink demand is likely to be that high, currently the line has a maximum line speed of 60 mph, 40 mph beyond Doleham. Ok you might want to restore the pre rationalisation speed limit of 85 but even so.

It’s 20 miles from Ashford to Hastings, am I right? I don’t think the existing feeder is going to be quite enough to extend to that whilst keeping the necessary redundant capacity for HS1.

At this point it’s obviously theoretical, I could have a look if there’s been any simulations devised. But my feeling is you’d be needing a new AC feeder in any case.

They really have been upgrading HS1 recently!

150mph + 150mph = 300mph closing speed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maximum closing speed through North Downs tunnel with an Eurostar is over 300 mph. Im not sure you'd want to be stopped at a signal with the 395 doors unsealed when a 16 car goes the other way at 170 mph!

A 319 and a Pendolino pass one another on the WCML with a closing speed of 225mph, and that's with opening windows on the 319 (which are often closed afterwards ). Nobody is going to die.

If the 395 is moving then the doors won't be unsealed

 

[BestWestern]

A 319 and a Pendolino pass one another on the WCML with a closing speed of 225mph, and that's with opening windows on the 319 (which are often closed afterwards ). Nobody is going to die.

If the 395 is moving then the doors won't be unsealed

And if the doors on a 319 are as rattly as those on their 150 sisters.... eeek!

 

[Bletchleyite]

And if the doors on a 319 are as rattly as those on their 150 sisters.... eeek!

They are. It's one heck of a bang.

 

[D365]

Don’t forget the 317s and 321s that were regulars on the West and East Coast lines.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don’t forget the 317s and 321s that were regulars on the West and East Coast lines.

Indeed - all the same Mk3 body and rattly doors!

 

[700007]

I think after a good Desiro, these trains definitely hit the top of my list. Comfortable, fast, armrests, charging points - it has the full lot. You get what you pay for, and the air conditioning during the summer is bliss. During the winter, bring a little blanket!

I also loved the announcement jingle - same one as the one used on the Stockholm metro and it was the first time I had heard that in years!

 

[Mintona]

I like them. Haven’t travelled on one for years now, but it used to be a pleasurable experience when I did it daily.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it’s just a Hitachi jingle. I half recall the 800s share it.

 

[700007]

I think it’s just a Hitachi jingle. I half recall the 800s share it.

The Stockholm Metro trains are built by Bombardier I think, and they are slightly more older than the 395s, so might not be the case.

 

[DenmarkRail]

The jingle on Stockholm T-Bana was the newer DSB (Danish) jingle. Pretty sure it is the same as on the 395s, and 700 series trains.

Will be proven wrong, but its the same jingle I've heard on my many Danish trips.

 

[paul1609]

Indeed - all the same Mk3 body and rattly doors!

The WCML was built for steam engines and has ventilation shafts and oversize bores to allow that, but I believe that some of the tunnels still have to have speed limits because of the pressure wave that is generated by the trains (they certainly do on the ECML).
HS1 (and HS2) were designed with the mitigation that the trains would be pressure sealed so the 395s have to have a system that remains sealed.

 

[cav1975]

The problem with the current implementation is that unfamiliar passengers don't understand why pressing the door button appears to do nothing and often results in frenzied button stabbing and looks of panic, until the door starts to open.

If they changed the flashing frequency of the buttons or the tone when the button is pressed then at least we ignorant untrained passengers could infer that the door open request has been accepted.

I can only comment that the current method is an example of very poor system design. it ought to be a relatively simple software upgrade, but I guess that it will never happen.

 

[D365]

I can only comment that the current method is an example of very poor system design. it ought to be a relatively simple software upgrade, but I guess that it will never happen.

Software changes to safety critical systems can be expensive!

 

[cav1975]

Software changes to safety critical systems can be expensive!

All the more reason to think things like this through up front.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they changed the flashing frequency of the buttons or the tone when the button is pressed then at least we ignorant untrained passengers could infer that the door open request has been accepted.

I can only comment that the current method is an example of very poor system design. it ought to be a relatively simple software upgrade, but I guess that it will never happen.

Pendolinos do that, and I half recall it was a mod.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Thanks so much for your replies folks, much appreciated! Generally seems as if they are good, sturdy units then!

I managed to get an Advance single on the 1916 from Ashford to St Pancras. Does anyone know if this will be a 6 or a 12 car unit?

Final question, I've never caught a domestic service from Ashford, having always travelled by Eurostar. I know it'll be signposted but how do I access the 'local' platforms? It's been a good 6-7 years since I've used Ashford so I can't think for the life of me!

 

[samuelmorris]

All it needs is for an additional sound to play or the LEDs on the door open button to flash to denote the request to release the door has been accepted. It does confuse people otherwise, myself included the first couple of times. What happens more often nowadays is I press the button and wait, the people outside the train assume I haven't and start hammering away at the external door release button and glare at me as I get off for being the kind of numbskull that expects the door to open by itself :P

 

[paul1609]

Thanks so much for your replies folks, much appreciated! Generally seems as if they are good, sturdy units then!

I managed to get an Advance single on the 1916 from Ashford to St Pancras. Does anyone know if this will be a 6 or a 12 car unit?

Final question, I've never caught a domestic service from Ashford, having always travelled by Eurostar. I know it'll be signposted but how do I access the 'local' platforms? It's been a good 6-7 years since I've used Ashford so I can't think for the life of me!

High Speed Services leave from Platform 5 or 6. Other domestic services leave from 1,2,5 or 6. Eurostar services leave from 3 or 4 but you can't access them without going through passport control and Eurostar check in.

 

[AlexNL]

The jingle on the 395's, the Stockholm T-Bana and the Stockholm Pendeltåg is the PIS manufacturer's default jingle. Back when the buses in my city were run by Veolia (which you know as Connex) the same jingle was played before the next stop announcement.

DSB use their own jingle, which can be listened to it here (go to "Stationslyde inkl. højttalerudkald"). The first jingle ("Den Nye Meddeleleslyd") is not DSB but is Banedanmark's, as they are responsible for announcements in stations. The AnsaldoBreda-built IC4 trains do not seem to use the DSB jingle and play the default jingle instead.

 

[duffield]

The 395's for me have the best non-first class seat comfort of any type. The seats are wide enough for my fat backside, and the airline seats have tons of legroom, enough to keep reasonable size luggage with you and still be comfortable.

Not enough toilets though (only 2) - with one out of order and a crowded train if can be a bit of a nightmare getting to the other one. Should have at least three (one shared per pair of coaches). Also some seats have very poor views due to the external indicators intruding. But these are minor niggles. And it's great to be able to have day out from the East Midlands to the South East coast with just a quick change at St Pancras!

 

[shaun]

Its been 3 years almost to the day I last tried one, but I found them very pleasant. Would be good to compare to the 800, I think the seats in the 800 are firmer on the base as I can't remember the seat bases feeling firm at all on the 395s? Wonder why they didn't just use the same seats in both...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find 395 seats better than 800 ones by a long way.

 

[Agent_Squash]

It’s 20 miles from Ashford to Hastings, am I right? I don’t think the existing feeder is going to be quite enough to extend to that whilst keeping the necessary redundant capacity for HS1.

At this point it’s obviously theoretical, I could have a look if there’s been any simulations devised. But my feeling is you’d be needing a new AC feeder in any case.



150mph + 150mph = 300mph closing speed.

Didn't read 'closing' - oops!