Class 395 Javelin - Opinions

[BluePenguin]

The Javelins are absolutely amazing. As they are only a few years old they are still very clean and in great condition. 2009 was a terrible year although the introduction if these excellent trains was great. Inside the blue interior is very relaxing on the eye and the scrolling displays are easy to read from a distance - not that you will need to look up at them much as Southeastern like playing announcements continuously throughout their services. So on your journey you can look forward to listening to Julie Berry's voice warbling on about where you will stop next, a read out of the entire list of stations when you do arrive at a station and warnings about invalid tickets which aren't routed plus high speed on your return to St Pancras. The conductors often do like to repeat everything the announcements say, which they might do if they are feeling bored or have turned them off.

On a more positive note, every seat has a plug socket which is very handy when you desperately need one to charge something. The toilets are considerably larger and more spacious than you can expect on other trains. The tables are very large and make eating food and working on a laptop very comfortable as you don't have to lean forward. Most carriages have storage areas near the doors for your bags and luggage.

Moving on, the views from the window are truly breath taking. The first part is a few boring tunnels and stopping at Stratford International but as soon as you pop out, you can catch a glimpse of Dagenham Dock and Rainham stations along with some industrial estates in Thurrock. Next you shortly pass alongside the Dartford crossing before plunging under the River Thames. A few seconds later and you are in Kent! After a brief stop at Ebbsfleet International (or not if you are travelling in the peak) you pass over the river Medway and enjoy beautiful scenes of Rochester castle and the Kent countryside.

It is great fun to look out the window and watch as you whizz past the traffic on the M20. Arriving into Ashford is either an anticlimax or a joyful sudden surprise that you have arrived so quickly.

It is a shame you are not continuing past Ashford International which is a bit boring, as the journey is lovely. Although the route itself is in parts more boring as you are now back on third rail and no longer travelling as fast, the views of the tracks next to you near Folkestone as they branch off towards the Channel Tunnel is a reminder of how privileged you are to share the tracks with the Eurostars.

The approach to Dover is beautiful. With the white cliffs on your left and the beach to your right, there is lots to take in. On a clear day you can see France and the ferries. After passing more fields you stop at Walmer and Martin Mill and then get to Deal where you can do some shopping in Sainsburys and walk along the sea front.

Overall, the trains are one of the best and fasted in the country and you will certainly not be disappointed. Have a good journey!

 

[BluePenguin]

Thanks so much for your replies folks, much appreciated! Generally seems as if they are good, sturdy units then!

I managed to get an Advance single on the 1916 from Ashford to St Pancras. Does anyone know if this will be a 6 or a 12 car unit?

Final question, I've never caught a domestic service from Ashford, having always travelled by Eurostar. I know it'll be signposted but how do I access the 'local' platforms? It's been a good 6-7 years since I've used Ashford so I can't think for the life of me!

You will arrive either on platform 5 or 6 as these are the only domestic platforms to be connected to HS1 and to have the over head wire above them. You have no need to worry about accessing the local platforms. You can access all of domestic platforms anyway by going down the stairs and using the underground walkways.

The Eurostar platforms are on a separate island and can only be accessed from the overhead walkway linked to the Eurostar departures upstairs. They are not accessible from anywhere else.

 

[ValleyLines142]

You will arrive either on platform 5 or 6 as these are the only domestic platforms to be connected to HS1 and to have the over head wire above them. You have no need to worry about accessing the local platforms. You can access all of domestic platforms anyway by going down the stairs and using the underground walkways.

The Eurostar platforms are on a separate island and can only be accessed from the overhead walkway linked to the Eurostar departures upstairs. They are not accessible from anywhere else.

Thanks - currently on 1J59 now, courtesy of 395025!

 

[Alteran Ancient]

It's such a shame they didn't order more of these. The high speed service is incredibly popular now, such that all the peak services need 12 coaches but cannot always have them and the problem gets a lot worse when a unit gets taken out of action, say, due to a DPD driver misusing a user-operated level crossing. Combine that with the idea of offering Eastbourne and Hastings a direct high speed service in the future. That sounds nice! But where are you going to get the stock to run this without short-forming something else?

The only way I can see this being fixed is by adding to the 800s order, but fat chance of that happening.

 

[D365]

The only way I can see this being fixed is by adding to the 800s order, but fat chance of that happening.

I haven't had a chance to look through the data but are the DfT asking for bidders to propose any improvements/extensions to the HS1 service?

 

[Alteran Ancient]

I haven't had a chance to look through the data but are the DfT asking for bidders to propose any improvements/extensions to the HS1 service?

I've heard zilch, I'm afraid!

 

[Doomotron]

Well, it seems I'm reopening this thread. Oh well.

For the Hastings services I think that they 1: need to electrify the Marshlink line with third rail and b: either get a second batcmh of 395s or get new 8xx trains that will have the same coach length and door layout as the 395s, as well as having the TVM430 signalling systems and third rail shoes.

Hopefully with this new order, they can operate all services with 12 coaches. Trains are getting packed at most times of day.

 

[rdlover777]

I adore the Javes, i try to use them when ever i go by train, they are alot more comfortable then the Networkers or Electros in my opinion

 

[Chris217]

I too love the Javelins.
395001 was my last one for haulage
but I have had it a couple of times since clearing the class.
My regular trips to Maidstone got me all these....well as far as Strood mostly but
I have had some in & out of Maidstone West too!
Smart comfortable ,and fast...well
on the HS1 parts that is .
Have travelled from Folkestone Central and Margate on these too.
Flying machines he he.

 

[Aictos]

My preferred route between London and Kent for the simple reason I don't need to go half way across London to travel onto Kent when I can arrive at say Kings Cross and just walk across the road and be in Kent in half the time.

This is why I've only ever used HS1 for travelling to Kent, never have I used the Classic routes.

 

[Railperf]

The 395's are a very good train. i think every operator should have had a derivative of these - oh wait - we have Class 800's almost everywhere lol.
The HS1 infrastructure is highly reliable. It is a very good train service. Even Stratford to St Pancras in 7 mins is fantastic - even though at less than 6 miles it is not exactly high speed!

It seems a shame that the 395's spend a lot of time off HS1 stopping between Ashford, Dover, Ramsgate, Herne Bay and Ebbsfleet - where they do not perform as sprightly as say a Class 375.
The Ashford Canterbury Ramsgate line should really have been upgraded to minimum 90 or 100mph running. And the same between Folkestone and Dover. All this ambling around on secondary lines at 70mphish seems a waste of a valuable resource!
I imagine anyone commuting in from Kent on a daily basis however must love the new service. And isn't it the 10th anniversary of High-speed services this year?

 

[Railperf]

The Javelins are absolutely amazing. As they are only a few years old they are still very clean and in great condition. 2009 was a terrible year although the introduction if these excellent trains was great. Inside the blue interior is very relaxing on the eye and the scrolling displays are easy to read from a distance - not that you will need to look up at them much as Southeastern like playing announcements continuously throughout their services. So on your journey you can look forward to listening to Julie Berry's voice warbling on about where you will stop next, a read out of the entire list of stations when you do arrive at a station and warnings about invalid tickets which aren't routed plus high speed on your return to St Pancras. The conductors often do like to repeat everything the announcements say, which they might do if they are feeling bored or have turned them off.

On a more positive note, every seat has a plug socket which is very handy when you desperately need one to charge something. The toilets are considerably larger and more spacious than you can expect on other trains. The tables are very large and make eating food and working on a laptop very comfortable as you don't have to lean forward. Most carriages have storage areas near the doors for your bags and luggage.

Moving on, the views from the window are truly breath taking. The first part is a few boring tunnels and stopping at Stratford International but as soon as you pop out, you can catch a glimpse of Dagenham Dock and Rainham stations along with some industrial estates in Thurrock. Next you shortly pass alongside the Dartford crossing before plunging under the River Thames. A few seconds later and you are in Kent! After a brief stop at Ebbsfleet International (or not if you are travelling in the peak) you pass over the river Medway and enjoy beautiful scenes of Rochester castle and the Kent countryside.

It is great fun to look out the window and watch as you whizz past the traffic on the M20. Arriving into Ashford is either an anticlimax or a joyful sudden surprise that you have arrived so quickly.

It is a shame you are not continuing past Ashford International which is a bit boring, as the journey is lovely. Although the route itself is in parts more boring as you are now back on third rail and no longer travelling as fast, the views of the tracks next to you near Folkestone as they branch off towards the Channel Tunnel is a reminder of how privileged you are to share the tracks with the Eurostars.

The approach to Dover is beautiful. With the white cliffs on your left and the beach to your right, there is lots to take in. On a clear day you can see France and the ferries. After passing more fields you stop at Walmer and Martin Mill and then get to Deal where you can do some shopping in Sainsburys and walk along the sea front.

Overall, the trains are one of the best and fasted in the country and you will certainly not be disappointed. Have a good journey!

Here you can watch the Ebbsfleet to Ashford section with GPS speed overlay - and they do 140mph (225km/h)!!

 

[Japan0913]

There is Class395 to travel to Paris in the future?

 

[Railperf]

There is Class395 to travel to Paris in the future?

No. Class 395 is for domestic services within the UK only.
Eurostar use Alstom built Class 373 and Siemens built Class 374 for services to Paris.

 

[Japan0913]

No. Class 395 is for domestic services within the UK only.
Eurostar use Alstom built Class 373 and Siemens built Class 374 for services to Paris.

Thank you very much.
Class374 / 373 know.

Class395 is either not available from the South Western of London Waterloo to service to Portsmouth?

 

[Railperf]

No Sorry, Class 395 is only used from London St Pancras station and Stratford International to Kent.

 

[Mikey C]

The 395's are a very good train. i think every operator should have had a derivative of these - oh wait - we have Class 800's almost everywhere lol.
The HS1 infrastructure is highly reliable. It is a very good train service. Even Stratford to St Pancras in 7 mins is fantastic - even though at less than 6 miles it is not exactly high speed!

It seems a shame that the 395's spend a lot of time off HS1 stopping between Ashford, Dover, Ramsgate, Herne Bay and Ebbsfleet - where they do not perform as sprightly as say a Class 375.
The Ashford Canterbury Ramsgate line should really have been upgraded to minimum 90 or 100mph running. And the same between Folkestone and Dover. All this ambling around on secondary lines at 70mphish seems a waste of a valuable resource!
I imagine anyone commuting in from Kent on a daily basis however must love the new service. And isn't it the 10th anniversary of High-speed services this year?

The shorter the classic line portion of the journey, the more commuters love them I imagine! Great for Ashford and Canterbury, less of a benefit for Ramsgate/Margate etc

 

[Railperf]

Yes, the Margate to St Pancras via Canterbury service takes longer to travel the first 1/3rd of the distance than it takes to do the remaining 2/3rds of the distance from Ashford to St Pancras!!

 

[Mikey C]

Nice trains but from weekend experience unloading and loading is very slow, which becomes more an issue on the classic lines where most of the services become regular stopping trains, taking a long and scenic tour of Kent! The ones going though the Medway towns for example spend a relatively small part of their journey on HS1

 

[ashkeba]

Nice trains but from weekend experience unloading and loading is very slow, which becomes more an issue on the classic lines where most of the services become regular stopping trains, taking a long and scenic tour of Kent! [...]

It's also an issue on trains serving Dover at times when there's a decent number of foot or bike passengers for/from the ferries. Why were they specced with relatively narrow doors (also a pain for commuters) and no large luggage racks (which commuters could use to stack their folding bikes in instead of taking up standing/leg room, or maybe we could put flip-down seats in them, but I don't think that's yet been done in the UK)?

 

[FlippyFF]

There's one luggage rack in each of the four centre coaches, it still doesn't stop the two wheeled brigade from leaving their folding bikes or scooters in the doorways though even when empty
.
Can someone explain what the odd framework is on the driving car between the accessible toilet and the door please? It has small silver latches that turn through 90 degrees but I can't work out their purpose.

Simon

 

[ashkeba]

There's one luggage rack in each of the four centre coaches, it still doesn't stop the two wheeled brigade from leaving their folding bikes or scooters in the doorways though even when empty

Do you mean the curved sloping shelving unit that takes the space of a double seat and has an odd just-below-overhead-rack shelf that only allows another overhead-rack-size bag on it? That's not a large luggage rack. As soon as one or two folding bikes were in it, no-one would get a suitcase on the same shelf and I doubt many would want the "who's effing bike is this taking up all the luggage rack?" shouts that would inevitably follow, so it's no surprising they get stood anywhere else.

I meant a luggage rack more the size of what's on the Voyagers (in coach D IIRC), although there's much else wrong with those trains.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

It's also an issue on trains serving Dover at times when there's a decent number of foot or bike passengers for/from the ferries. Why were they specced with relatively narrow doors (also a pain for commuters) and no large luggage racks (which commuters could use to stack their folding bikes in instead of taking up standing/leg room, or maybe we could put flip-down seats in them, but I don't think that's yet been done in the UK)?

Many years ago, I was tasked with reading through the spec for what became the class 395s, and from memory the above statement is incorrect.

There were (at least!) three requirements which were more or less impossible to meet in a single train; to operate at a maximum speed of 140mph, to be able to match station dwell times of Electrostars, and to be able to operate between Folkestone and Dover.

Building a train capable of running at 140mph was "easy"; many were already running at this speed - and faster - and so this element of the design was very low risk. But there weren't any suitable doors on the market at the time which could fill an aperture similar to that on the Electrostars and be suitable for 140mph running; the widest high speed train door that I can think of was the wide single-leaf one installed on the Arlanda Express trains, and by observation (and memory - I haven't been on one for nearly 20 years!) they seem to be of similar width to those fitted to the class 395s. However, it is - as has been pointed out - more or less impossible to match Electrostar dwell times with these single leaf doors; the other problems highlighted (at Dover and elsewhere) should have been overcome if wider doors suitable for an aperture similar to an Electrostar and capable of withstanding the pressures generated when travelling at 140mph had been available. Finally, the trains would have to pass through Shakespeare Cliff Tunnel, and if my memory is correct at that time emergency end access was required for all trains which operated through it; again, this would have been a first, and made compliance with the design requirement more or less impossible to achieve. Consequently, Bombardier (and I believe others) pulled out from the bidding process, and the trains procured (the class 395s) were VERY non-compliant with the original spec, only the maximum design speed being provided.

 

[clockend]

There's one luggage rack in each of the four centre coaches, it still doesn't stop the two wheeled brigade from leaving their folding bikes or scooters in the doorways though even when empty
.
Can someone explain what the odd framework is on the driving car between the accessible toilet and the door please? It has small silver latches that turn through 90 degrees but I can't work out their purpose.

Simon

Wheelchair space and lock.

 

[Clip]

The shorter the classic line portion of the journey, the more commuters love them I imagine! Great for Ashford and Canterbury, less of a benefit for Ramsgate/Margate etc

Well its about 30 minutes even from margate the time savings and they are very popular

 

[Doomotron]

If the Javelins have no end doors, how are they allowed in the Shakespeare Cliff tunnels?

 

[ashkeba]

If the Javelins have no end doors, how are they allowed in the Shakespeare Cliff tunnels?

The bottom of http://www.railsigns.uk/sect17page1/sect17page1.html says unused tunnels were converted into channel-tunnel-style evacuation tunnels, with stop boards to tell drivers where to put the train to allow evacuation, but https://www.kentrail.org.uk/class_395.htm claims the tracks were slewed to the side to allow evacuation. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/shakespeare-tunnel-folkestone.104007/ suggests both may have been done.

 

[Railperf]

I noticed the bottom inside edges of the drivers doors are suffering corrosion. And after 10 years. The interiors really need a refresh.

 

[Railperf]

But on a positive note these are Britain's fastest trains and i was privileged to experience the fastest recorded Journey time between Stratford and Ashford of 25 min 11.8 seconds - an average speed of 119.6mph. Just 5 seconds short of a true 120mph start to stop average speed. Fantastic!!
This is the fastest start to stop average speed recorded on a daily scheduled passenger carrying domestic service in the UK!!

 

[samuelmorris]

I noticed the bottom inside edges of the drivers doors are suffering corrosion. And after 10 years. The interiors really need a refresh.

With the current franchise disarray, 'make do and mend' is all they're likely to get until a new long-term franchise is let, in much the same way the extended short franchises on Anglia led to poor maintenance and cleanliness for a while. I generally don't find the interiors bad on 395s at all though, new seat covers, a proper deep clean of the carpets and filters and they should be good to go again.