Class 397 TPE "Nova 2" Travel Experiences

[Bevan Price]

I travelled this afternoon on the 1526 from Manchester Piccadilly. The train was as expected formed with 4 standard coaches. Unfortunately the aisles and vestibules were filled with standing passengers which limited a little bit how much I could see of the train. I found the seating fairly pleasant which is interesting because the similar seating in their 802s I found exceptionally uncomfortable. The low floor was most welcome, because it made the train feel airy and light, and you could see where there were free seats as you went along the coach (not that there were any for lots of people).

So - just as I suspected - 5 coach 397s are going to be too small - and unlike the 350s, they probably cannot couple a pair of 397s together because of inadequate platform lengths at some stations ??

 

[kc_]

So - just as I suspected - 5 coach 397s are going to be too small - and unlike the 350s, they probably cannot couple a pair of 397s together because of inadequate platform lengths at some stations ??

Also, lack of gangway connectors - Requires more staff on the train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So - just as I suspected - 5 coach 397s are going to be too small - and unlike the 350s, they probably cannot couple a pair of 397s together because of inadequate platform lengths at some stations ??

I think all the Novas need to be extended to 7-car, possibly even 8 in the case of the LHCS due to the shorter vehicles.

 

[greyman42]

I had my first journey on a 397 from Carlisle to Man Picc yesterday. The seats are to hard and the ride is bumpy, but the windows are nice and big. The thing that caught my attention was the luggage racks rattling. This also occurs on the 195s at higher speeds so i think it is a CAF build quality issue. It is not good for a new train.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I had my first journey on a 397 from Carlisle to Man Picc yesterday. The seats are to hard and the ride is bumpy, but the windows are nice and big. The thing that caught my attention was the luggage racks rattling. This also occurs on the 195s at higher speeds so i think it is a CAF build quality issue. It is not good for a new train.

Probably didn't have enough people on it to weigh it down small cars on faster roads suffer from that issue too. My Golf is like a low square lump - sticks to the road like glue and steers brilliantly albeit with a lack of feel unlike its main rival the Ford Focus.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think all the Novas need to be extended to 7-car, possibly even 8 in the case of the LHCS due to the shorter vehicles.

I would love to see a 7-car 397 by summer 2021 as people make up for lost holidays in 2020 and avoid the M6 which while not generally as busy as south of Greater Manchester is rather long and tedious as it crosses the hills.

 

[route101]

Dont think 5 cars will be enough on the Edinburgh services.

 

[Railperf]

Dont think 5 cars will be enough on the Edinburgh services.

Seems to be plenty of room at the moment on both Edinburgh and Glasgow services

 

[Railperf]

I had my first journey on a 397 from Carlisle to Man Picc yesterday. The seats are to hard and the ride is bumpy, but the windows are nice and big. The thing that caught my attention was the luggage racks rattling. This also occurs on the 195s at higher speeds so i think it is a CAF build quality issue. It is not good for a new train.

Compared to a Pendolino the ride is much more lively. Interior Noise levels are higher. The bigger windows are welcome and a slight improvement on the excellent Desiro's. At 110mph there is a lot of vibration - not sure of the secondary suspension is as good as it should be - or maybe dampers ned beefing up. It is a very lively ride indeed. I don't dare to wonder what it will be like at 125mph!
A Pendolino feels like a rolls royce in terms of ride and quietness in comparison.
This may be the2nd fastest accelerating train on the WCML - behind the 331's, but much faster than the 350's and 180's and slightly faster than a 390.

My only gripe is that these seem to be driven in an on/off style. Train reaches 100mph, power off - speed drops to 97/98mph - it feels like full power on - back to 100mph again. feels like a London Underground train hitting the limiter. If this is speed hold - it could be slightly more refined. if not - drivers are still getting used to the power delivery and will need to feather the power in more gently when maintaining speed.

 

[cambsy]

Rail Perf, I noticed an easing off, then re applying power, on 397008 on the 12.07 Man Air-Edinburgh, on Sat 18th July, I found the ride ok, didnt hear rattling, but was listening to music on head phones, found them a definite improvement on the 350 and 185, Ill be interested to see what they are like at 125mph north of Preston, recon be quite short stretches, and will need to be driven hard to make most of the 125 mph stretches.

 

[Railperf]

Rail Perf, I noticed an easing off, then re applying power, on 397008 on the 12.07 Man Air-Edinburgh, on Sat 18th July, I found the ride ok, didnt hear rattling, but was listening to music on head phones, found them a definite improvement on the 350 and 185, Ill be interested to see what they are like at 125mph north of Preston, recon be quite short stretches, and will need to be driven hard to make most of the 125 mph stretches.

Yes and because these units are quite powerful..you feel that shove in the back each time power is applied at 98 or 108mph - which is happening every 10 to 15 seconds. It isnt clear whether this is a function if some sort of speed hold device or the driver not quite used to the power controller.
These reach 100mph in well under 2 mins and i guess 125mph could be reached in 2.5 to 3 mins - so there is no reason they cannot match the linespeed profile closely and make the use of the extra speed. Presron to Lancaster is pretty straight - if only the approach and exit from Preston could be faster.

 

[cambsy]

Rail Perf, I remember seeing a timing log in the Railway Magazine, of a Cross Country HST, on either the Cornish or Devon Scot, hitting 120mph down grade Oxenholme-Lancaster, and Royal Scots Grey, hitting 116mph down both Shap and Beattock,when it ran Birmingham-Glasgow then next day Edinburgh-Birmingham, over a weekend, for Virgin Cross Country, so theres a few stretches where 120-125mph should be possible for 397’s, I think they could be

Preston-Bay Horse,
Morecombe South Jct-Milnthorpe,
Shap-Tebay,
Penrith-Wreay,
Kingsmoor Yard-Quintinshill,
Lockerbie-Beattock,
Abbingdon loop-Carstairs South Jct,

The above stretches are where I think, there is scope for 125mph 397 running, but things like curving speeds will need to be looked at, if 125mph 397 running, is to happen, as there isn’t much in the way of long straight stretches, so the 397’s would need to take 110mph curves at 120mph etc, but i dont know if this is possible, while keeping passenger comfort at acceptable levels, I know there’s been rumblings in certain circles about wether tilt was needed at all For 125mph? As some recon it could have been achieved without it, and that for political reasons tilt was carried on with.

I think south of Weaver Jct 125mph without tilt, would be possible over quite a bit of the route, but its North of Weaver junction that it gets a lot harder to be fast without tilt, as its a lot more curvy line, so I think it will be interesting to see how much Network Rail is prepared to do, to get the 397’s running at 125mph? Will it be just increase speed or will they slew tracks, re cant the rails etc? What do you think?.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Will 397s go south of Weaver Junction though?

 

[Huntergreed]

Will 397s go south of Weaver Junction though?

Not unless it's for works or a pretty unusual ECS via Crewe I imagine, TPE only operate to Liverpool - Manchester on the WCML.

 

[route101]

Had another ride on 397 yesterday from Liverpool to Glasgow. Legroom is decent but the seats do leave you a bit sore. Nice bright and airy with bigger windows.

 

[Huntergreed]

I must admit, I used to actively avoid TPE on the WCML to use VT due to their much nicer stock (390’s), however now I may be tempted to swing the other way and travel TPE more as I find the 397’s much more pleasant than even a 390 (in standard anyway!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit, I used to actively avoid TPE on the WCML to use VT due to their much nicer stock (390’s), however now I may be tempted to swing the other way and travel TPE more as I find the 397’s much more pleasant than even a 390 (in standard anyway!)

Yes, I'd probably do that. Though it is a shame (window alignment aside) that the quality of the interior of the 397 isn't *quite* as good as the Mk5, which is up there with the best European hauled UIC coaches, give or take the Fainsa Sophia! It's more like an end doored 195.

In a sense the 397 is basically, barring not being quite Siemens build quality, the "Class 344" I've enthused about wanting to come into being, i.e. an OHLE version of the class 444.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Just a pity they won't be doubled up for stuff like the Fringe which, next year, will attract a not insignificant crowd from the North of England.

 

[185143]

Just a pity they won't be doubled up for stuff like the Fringe which, next year, will attract a not insignificant crowd from the North of England.

I thought they would be, hence the interior coach lettering being A/F, B/G etc...?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought they would be, hence the interior coach lettering being A/F, B/G etc...?

They can run doubled-up but the problem is there aren't many of them (that's where they are a downside compared with if they'd gone for Hitachi, in that case additional units could have been made available by running 185s on quieter actually-Transpennine services instead).

I wonder if for the Fringe they're more likely to seek to divert the Glasgows to Edinburgh and serve Glasgow by (Avanti) connection only for that period.

 

[Jamesrob637]

They can run doubled-up but the problem is there aren't many of them (that's where they are a downside compared with if they'd gone for Hitachi, in that case additional units could have been made available by running 185s on quieter actually-Transpennine services instead).

I wonder if for the Fringe they're more likely to seek to divert the Glasgows to Edinburgh and serve Glasgow by (Avanti) connection only for that period.

Makes perfect sense. Glasgow is the "business" city for Northern English but business travel is light in August even under normal circumstances. Stations such as Oxenholme for the Lake District offer same-platform changes, which the larger stations of Preston and Carlisle cannot guarantee.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Makes perfect sense. Glasgow is the "business" city for Northern English but business travel is light in August even under normal circumstances. Stations such as Oxenholme for the Lake District offer same-platform changes, which the larger stations of Preston and Carlisle cannot guarantee.

Preston I'll give you, Carlisle is very likely to be same or cross-platform in this context, it's rather rare (but possible if things go wrong) to have a northbound train from the normally southbound platform or vice versa.