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Class 40 'Namers'

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RichmondCommu

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G'day everyone,

As a child trainspotter the class 40s were my favourite locomotives but I've always wondered why they lost their names so early on in their lives.

Any ideas anyone?

Kind regards,

Essex Ram
 
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Trackman

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from wikipedia
Locomotives in the range D210–D235 were to be named after ships operated by the companies Cunard Line, Elder Dempster Lines, and Canadian Pacific Steamships, as they hauled express trains to Liverpool, the home port of these companies. The only locomotive not to carry a name was D226 which was to carry the name Media but never did so. From approximately 1970, with Class 40s no longer working these trains, the nameplates were gradually removed
Also I heard people were stealing some plates so they removed them all on the hurry up.
 

randyrippley

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Official policy at the time was not to name locomotives (which the Western ignored) and the names were removed as a result of that policy as the locos went through works. To be truthful, having overweight underpowered rail crushers as named celebrity locos was an embarrassment. It was tolerated on the Deltics, but not the lumbering 40s
 

70014IronDuke

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Official policy at the time was not to name locomotives (which the Western ignored) and the names were removed as a result of that policy as the locos went through works. To be truthful, having overweight underpowered rail crushers as named celebrity locos was an embarrassment. It was tolerated on the Deltics, but not the lumbering 40s

Deltics as "underpowered rail crushers" - hmmmm, I'll resist this provocative click bait.

I remember when these were still front-line locos being named - it certainly added to the 'romance' of copping them. But rather like the Cl 44s (an extreme case, it's true), the 40s pretty quickly lost their front-line status. I don't know exactly, but with the electrification timetable on the WCML in April 66, were any Class 40s diagrammed for any premier class 1 services? Aberdeen-Ednburgh, perhaps?
 

70014IronDuke

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Oh, I read that as meaning only the 40s - i.e. the naming of the Deltics was tolerated precisely because they weren't lumbering overweight underpowered rail crushers.

Hmmm. Interesting linguistic point: (or perhaps semantic point). I read it, because of the word 'tolerated' as applying largely to the Deltics too, but they were "just about good enough" to "get away with" keeping their names.
 

edwin_m

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Deltics as "underpowered rail crushers" - hmmmm, I'll resist this provocative click bait.

I remember when these were still front-line locos being named - it certainly added to the 'romance' of copping them. But rather like the Cl 44s (an extreme case, it's true), the 40s pretty quickly lost their front-line status. I don't know exactly, but with the electrification timetable on the WCML in April 66, were any Class 40s diagrammed for any premier class 1 services? Aberdeen-Ednburgh, perhaps?
They were certainly common on Edinburgh-Aberdeen about 1980, but the trains were early Mk2 stock from around 1965 so I couldn't describe it as a premier express. Lack of electric train heating meant they couldn't routinely haul the aircon Mk2s (though I recall one on a long WCML diversion in 1983), which pretty much took them off the top passenger services from the mid-70s onwards.
 

RichmondCommu

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Official policy at the time was not to name locomotives (which the Western ignored) and the names were removed as a result of that policy as the locos went through works. To be truthful, having overweight underpowered rail crushers as named celebrity locos was an embarrassment. It was tolerated on the Deltics, but not the lumbering 40s
Fair enough but when did the Peaks lose their name plates? Not just the class 44s but the class 45s and 46s as well.
 

Taunton

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The Class 40s were on Edinburgh-Aberdeen for a good 20 years, 1960-80 at least. There were two batches of them delivered to Haymarket which stayed there throughout, the earlier ones had the disc headcodes but the Scottish Region rebuilt them (unlike others) to have 4-character codes like the second batch.

They were also principal loco power on Euston-Holyhead trains beyond Crewe until air con stock prevented this. Seemed strange at Holyhead that Class 40 handled Class 1 passenger while Class 47 did the freight.

I recall in the mid 1970s being on a Birmingham-Edinburgh portion from Carstairs, air con Mk 2e stock by then, and a Class 40 being turned out. I suspect Haymarket thought it didn't matter for a 45 minute journey.
 

crosscity

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from wikipedia
From approximately 1970, with Class 40s no longer working these trains, the nameplates were gradually removed
Also I heard people were stealing some plates so they removed them all on the hurry up.
I have a picture of Aquitania (40015 ex-D215) still with a nameplate in May 1974 (https://flic.kr/p/23VrXVU). I wonder if this was the last 40 to retain at least one.
 

falcon

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No there were still at few with nameplates into at least 1975. The empress ones were still around in 1975.
 
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Told by a reliable source that the nameplates tended to bugger up the brushes in the wash plants and were removed by order however i believe some painted versions were done as a replacement by those not happy with the order
 

theblackwatch

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Interesting that some lasted into '75 - I thought they'd gone earlier than that. My earliest railway memories are from about '76/77 and I can't remember ever seeing a named 40. Would be interesting to have any dates of sightings from 1975 of named 'Empresses'.
 

gazthomas

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Could it be as simple that the ships were long gone by this time therefore it didn't make sense promoting ones that were long gone? Aquitania was decommissioned in 1950 which of course is way after the 40's were introduced but by the 1970's would the "public" have forgotten about it?
 

Cowley

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Could it be as simple that the ships were long gone by this time therefore it didn't make sense promoting ones that were long gone? Aquitania was decommissioned in 1950 which of course is way after the 40's were introduced but by the 1970's would the "public" have forgotten about it?
I wondered that,
It’s a time when boat trains and ocean liners were disappearing due to long haul flights becoming more accessible, alongside the class 40s losing their top link jobs on the WCML.
If the nameplates were being stolen and the locos were being repainted, you could see why these plates might have been removed...
The ones that had replacement transfers (40012 and 40013?) being just done as depot pets, a bit like Tinsley’s Peaks in the late eighties?
 

randyrippley

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Could it be as simple that the ships were long gone by this time therefore it didn't make sense promoting ones that were long gone? Aquitania was decommissioned in 1950 which of course is way after the 40's were introduced but by the 1970's would the "public" have forgotten about it?
you surely mean way BEFORE the 40s were introduced....?
 

GusB

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Class 40 didn't really appear on my radar very often, although I'm aware that they did operate in my neck of the woods. I must have seen a couple on my travels, as I have two underlined in my Ian Allan combined volume from 1981. Previous posts suggest that names were removed earlier, but said combined volume happens to list 40 010 - 40 035 as being named. Had they all had nameplates removed by this point and were only named on paper?
 

theblackwatch

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Class 40 didn't really appear on my radar very often, although I'm aware that they did operate in my neck of the woods. I must have seen a couple on my travels, as I have two underlined in my Ian Allan combined volume from 1981. Previous posts suggest that names were removed earlier, but said combined volume happens to list 40 010 - 40 035 as being named. Had they all had nameplates removed by this point and were only named on paper?

I have a feeling the Ian Allan books used to list names even if they had been removed years earlier. Does the book also show 47538 as being named 'PYTHON'? I remember in the late 70s, it was never named and according to http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_numbers.php?s_loco=47538 , it actually lost its plates back in 1973. (I can also remember that 47091 didn't used to carry its 'THOR' nameplates when my interest began, but they re-appeared in the 80s.)
 

GusB

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I have a feeling the Ian Allan books used to list names even if they had been removed years earlier. Does the book also show 47538 as being named 'PYTHON'? I remember in the late 70s, it was never named and according to http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_numbers.php?s_loco=47538 , it actually lost its plates back in 1973. (I can also remember that 47091 didn't used to carry its 'THOR' nameplates when my interest began, but they re-appeared in the 80s.)
Indeed 47538 is listed as being named "PYTHON". So it is the case that the book may be showing inaccurate information so long after the details changed. How annoying! I can accept some inaccuracies due to last minute changes prior to publication, but it's frustrating nonetheless.
 

theblackwatch

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Indeed 47538 is listed as being named "PYTHON". So it is the case that the book may be showing inaccurate information so long after the details changed. How annoying! I can accept some inaccuracies due to last minute changes prior to publication, but it's frustrating nonetheless.

I think it was just policy/laziness to include former names too. When Platform 5 came along, they would list names in brackets if they were missing (or just a single bracket if it was missing on one side) a breath fresh air in railway publishing. But I'm getting off topic now! So if anyone has any sightings/pictures of named 40s in 1075 (or 76 even!), please shout...
 

GusB

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I think it was just policy/laziness to include former names too. When Platform 5 came along, they would list names in brackets if they were missing (or just a single bracket if it was missing on one side) a breath fresh air in railway publishing. But I'm getting off topic now! So if anyone has any sightings/pictures of named 40s in 1075 (or 76 even!), please shout...
I would agree that Platform 5 did seem to be a bit better. Anyhow, as you say - back to named 40s. I'd imagine seeing one in 1076 must have been a fearsome sight ;) (I assume you meant 1976)
 

Ash Bridge

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I think it was just policy/laziness to include former names too. When Platform 5 came along, they would list names in brackets if they were missing (or just a single bracket if it was missing on one side) a breath fresh air in railway publishing. But I'm getting off topic now! So if anyone has any sightings/pictures of named 40s in 1075 (or 76 even!), please shout...

I'm currently in the process of checking my slide collection, up to 1973 at the moment and just located a shot of 222 in somewhat faded green livery stabled at Carnforth but still proudly displaying a Laconia nameplate. This was May of that year, I realise it doesn't quite fit the criteria of 1975 or later so I'll keep searching and report back if I find anything later.
 

Oscar46016

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Fair enough but when did the Peaks lose their name plates? Not just the class 44s but the class 45s and 46s as well.

I don't think they did?

Only one 46 was to my knowledge - Leicestershire & Derbyshire Yeomanry - was officially named - 46016 was unofficially Oscar.

Lots of the 45s were named and kept their names till withdrawal, but I think with a few of them when they got re-instated the names weren't put back on.
 

Taunton

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I have a feeling the Ian Allan books used to list names even if they had been removed years earlier. Does the book also show 47538 as being named 'PYTHON'? I remember in the late 70s, it was never named and according to http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_numbers.php?s_loco=47538 , it actually lost its plates back in 1973. (I can also remember that 47091 didn't used to carry its 'THOR' nameplates when my interest began, but they re-appeared in the 80s.)
The 20 or so Class 47 which carried this group of names took them from onetime GWR Broad Gauge express steam locomotives. The plates disappeared (and reappeared) depending on the enthusiasm (or otherwise) at their depots for old GWR tradition as the locos were moved around the system.
 
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