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Class 43 disposals

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richieb1971

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The problem I have with 43's being stored/scrapped is that 2 years down the road there will be a shortage of trains. How many times have we seen a shortage of rolling stock over the years?

The issue always seems to be timing, where a particular railway needs new trains about 18 months after a mass culling.
 
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Domh245

Domh245

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richieb1971 said:
The problem I have with 43's being stored/scrapped is that 2 years down the road there will be a shortage of trains. How many times have we seen a shortage of rolling stock over the years?

The issue always seems to be timing, where a particular railway needs new trains about 18 months after a mass culling.
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I somehow doubt that any train shortages could be resolved with (only!) 125mph push-pull locomotives however
 
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BayPaul

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richieb1971 said:
The problem I have with 43's being stored/scrapped is that 2 years down the road there will be a shortage of trains. How many times have we seen a shortage of rolling stock over the years?

The issue always seems to be timing, where a particular railway needs new trains about 18 months after a mass culling.
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By the end of 2022 the 222s and XC 221s are off lease - these can pretty much fill in any shortage of trains an HST could fill, and are compliant with PRM and toiler emission legislation, which the HSTs aren't. Given the current situation, the chances of a chronic shortage of trains before 2022 seems pretty low, so scrapping them doesn't seem stupid.
 
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DB

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BayPaul said:
By the end of 2022 the 222s and XC 221s are off lease - these can pretty much fill in any shortage of trains an HST could fill, and are compliant with PRM and toiler emission legislation, which the HSTs aren't. Given the current situation, the chances of a chronic shortage of trains before 2022 seems pretty low, so scrapping them doesn't seem stupid.
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The HST power cars actually mostly have newer engines than the Voyagers!
 
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BayPaul

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DavidB said:
The HST power cars actually mostly have newer engines than the Voyagers!
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Not sure how relevant this is. There is no point running the power cars by themselves, the Mk3s are rapidly being scrapped and have the PRM / toilet issues I mentionned, and it is a fairly substantial job to get a 43 to pull a Mk4 as I understand it.
 
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FordFocus

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Another reason could be awaiting the potential for scrap prices to increase? 23m long coaches take up more space. Storage space is at a premium in some locations.
 
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DB

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FordFocus said:
Another reason could be awaiting the potential for scrap prices to increase? 23m long coaches take up more space. Storage space is at a premium in some locations.
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Scrap prices are reasonable against the five year average, and no reason to assume that they are likely to increase in the near future.
 
TrainTrackJack

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probably for repaint?
XC took on on 2 extra power cars and i wouldnt be surprised if they had more in the pipeline
also, is 43030 going to be repaired and put back in traffic as it wasnt that damaged?
 
43096

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TrainTrackJack said:
probably for repaint?
XC took on on 2 extra power cars and i wouldnt be surprised if they had more in the pipeline
also, is 43030 going to be repaired and put back in traffic as it wasnt that damaged?
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They’re not for XC. And 43030 isn’t at Ely so not that being moved.
 
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scotraildriver

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TrainTrackJack said:
probably for repaint?
XC took on on 2 extra power cars and i wouldnt be surprised if they had more in the pipeline
also, is 43030 going to be repaired and put back in traffic as it wasnt that damaged?
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43030 is still being held by the RAIB at the former Glasgow works.
 
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DB

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TrainTrackJack said:
probably for repaint?
XC took on on 2 extra power cars and i wouldnt be surprised if they had more in the pipeline
also, is 43030 going to be repaired and put back in traffic as it wasnt that damaged?
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Why would XC want any more? Their sets are not intensively used and they now have two spare power cars.

scotraildriver said:
43030 is still being held by the RAIB at the former Glasgow works.
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They are certainly taking their time over their examination!
 
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swt_passenger

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DavidB said:
Why would XC want any more? Their sets are not intensively used and they now have two spare power cars.
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In parts of forum world, XC will end up with vast numbers of additional power door fitted HSTs.
But in the real world, XC will far more likely reduce their HSTs to zero as 221 or 222 (or both) eventually replace them.
 
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DB

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swt_passenger said:
In parts of forum world, XC will end up with vast numbers of additional power door fitted HSTs.
But in the real world, XC will far more likely reduce their HSTs to zero as 221 or 222 (or both) eventually replace them.
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Given that most of the potential Mk3s they could have taken have now been scrapped, it seems fairly safe to assume that more sets are very unlikely!
 
TrainTrackJack

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Last edited:
tnxrail

tnxrail

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43096 said:
Clinnick isn’t noted for accuracy.

People may want to have a look at the Hanson & Hall Rail Services Solutions Facebook page... ;)
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Every going a bit crazy on Twitter and Facebook with no info, WNXX had info last night and Hanson and Hall post seemed more positive?
 
HamworthyGoods

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richieb1971 said:
The problem I have with 43's being stored/scrapped is that 2 years down the road there will be a shortage of trains. How many times have we seen a shortage of rolling stock over the years?

The issue always seems to be timing, where a particular railway needs new trains about 18 months after a mass culling.
Click to expand...

How would non-PRM stock which it would be illegal to run help with a Stock Shortage other than forcing those unfortunate to be less able than most of us to loose their accessible trains?
 
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DB

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HamworthyGoods said:
How would non-PRM stock which it would be illegal to run help with a Stock Shortage other than forcing those unfortunate to be less able than most of us to loose their accessible trains?
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And many of the surpus Mk3s have been scrapped, so what use are the power cars on their own anyway?
 
Railperf

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43096 said:
Clinnick isn’t noted for accuracy.

People may want to have a look at the Hanson & Hall Rail Services Solutions Facebook page... ;)
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The page doesn't specify what is actually happening to the power cars, but just confirms a movement is taking place. Hanson and Hall also recycle/ scrap.
 
43096

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Railperf said:
The page doesn't specify what is actually happening to the power cars, but just confirms a movement is taking place. Hanson and Hall also recycle/ scrap.
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You don’t start by sending the best condition vehicles for scrap, though.
 
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Clarence Yard

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DavidB said:
Why would XC want any more? Their sets are not intensively used and they now have two spare power cars.



They are certainly taking their time over their examination!
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Their examination finished a very, very long time ago - 43030 is being held until the Fiscal releases it (and the other vehicles).
 
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DB

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Clarence Yard said:
Their examination finished a very, very long time ago - 43030 is being held until the Fiscal releases it (and the other vehicles).
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Presumbaly when that happens the rest of the vehicles will be cut up on site or taken straight to a scrapyard though!
 
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Wyrleybart

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BayPaul said:
By the end of 2022 the 222s and XC 221s are off lease - these can pretty much fill in any shortage of trains an HST could fill, and are compliant with PRM and toiler emission legislation, which the HSTs aren't. Given the current situation, the chances of a chronic shortage of trains before 2022 seems pretty low, so scrapping them doesn't seem stupid.
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Correct
There has been a dearth of diesel powered passenger trains for the last ten years which could have been ameliorated by the Diesel Trains Ltd Rosco that the Government were going to create, then didn't. So Porterbrook chose to invest millions in converting EMUs to DEMUs partly due to the then impending PRM issues. Several other solutions by the DfT could have resolved the imbalance of diesel traction by now - such as the TOC sponsored electrification of Crewe-Chester which would have allowed
390s to work through to Chester
TfW nee ATW to use EMUs on Crewe Chester shuttles.
Completion of OLE Didcot-Oxford would have released more Turbos westwards
Completion of OLE-Reading-Basingstoke would have released more Turbos westwards

etc etc

However the restocking of Franchises with Hitachi IETs is releasing the Avanti 221, all 222s and four 180s in the next two-three years. Also for consideration is the on/off debate about surplus 185s and the fate of the TfW 158s.
 
fgwrich

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3973EXL said:
One opinion, make of it what you will!

Richard Clinnick on Twitter: "Hearing of a path tomorrow from Ely to Eastleigh that will have the first 4 HST power cars going for scrap. Former GW Cl.43s." / Twitter
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43096 said:
Clinnick isn’t noted for accuracy.

People may want to have a look at the Hanson & Hall Rail Services Solutions Facebook page... ;)
Click to expand...

I wish each Twitter could add some of this each time he posts...

For those not understanding... eg, a pinch of salt...
 

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43096

43096

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fgwrich said:
I wish each Twitter could add some of this each time he posts...

For those not understanding... eg, a pinch of salt...
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Quite!

The path tomorrow he mentions is, I think, the Tuesdays and Thursdays WTT path which is in through til May.

Besides, regardless of what the fate is of the vehicles moved, they won't be the first 4 HST power cars heading for scrap as he claims: 41002 (aka 43001/975813) and 43011/019/173 are all long since scrapped.
 
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