Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

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221101 Voyager

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At the time it was proposed as part of the franchise bid so was built into that. I'm surmising, but don't know, that First Group haven't used their own funds to undertake this as all costs are being picked up by Dept of Transport.

How many have been re-tractioned so far i wonder?
10 units have been done and 4 more were in progress. As well as 3 that remain DC motored.
 
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43096

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A lot of the additional costs during refurb will have been picked up by Angel Trains / Gemini.
That will depend on the contracts between Angel, SWR and Gemini and who picks up the tab for additional work arising. Regardless, termination of the lease is not going to be cheap.
 
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I make it 11 retractioned, 4 at Wolverton in progress and 3 still DC. 18 units in all.

I'll miss not hearing them chuntering to themselves on the juice at BM depot.
 

Doctor Fegg

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Counting down the days until Grand South Western Railway announces its application for an Open Access service to the south coast using 442s...
 

Dave91131

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It has to be said that the whole 442 project has been an absolutely scandalous waste of money. The solution of using the 458s has been available from the start, given SWR's intention to ditch them. Instead they have literally wasted millions on leasing costs, repainting, refurbishing and re-tractioning the 442s for no purpose.

The railway's ability to p*** money up the wall is never ending. Is to be hoped the bill is picked up by First and MTR rather than DfT and taxpayers - their idea, their plan, their utter screw up, should be their cost.
A la EMR and the HS...

No, hang on, don't get me started.

:rolleyes:
 
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At least the project gave me the opportunity to photo the units being hauled by Class 37s, 47s and 57s to/from Wolverton.
 

adc82140

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As the lease is now terminated I guess they'll be hauled into storage somewhere in pretty short order.
 

theironroad

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Something that no-one seems to have mentioned is the fact that a lot of staff at Bournemouth Depot have suddenly lost their day to day jobs and must be wondering what is next for them. Not a very nice position to be in I'm sure.

SWR have said that the 458s will be based at Bournemouth going towards protecting the jobs that were created.

Where the 458 refurbishment will happen we don't know and assuming the 458 are still needed on suburban routes until the 701s take over, there is going to be a large gap between the two, although I assume the 442 will need to be maintained at the depot ready for hauling away unless they to for scrap via road and apparently they are going to be stripped for parts. I'd assume the seats and carpet at least could be reused from internal and maybe the universal toilet units.

I assume the staff at Wimbledon who look after the 458 now will retrain to 701.
 

David Goddard

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Could this therefore also mean a re-jig in how the 701s will be introduced? The last article I remember reading (don't shoot if it has changed since!) said 707s, then 455/6 and finally 458s, but could today's news see the 458s replaced next to enable them to go off for refurb, then the 455/6s last.

As for the 442s, could they first get moved to Eastleigh main works for strippng, then get thrown across the yard to Raxstar for destruction (given they broke the first sets).
 

Dave91131

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As for the 442s, could they first get moved to Eastleigh main works for strippng, then get thrown across the yard to Raxstar for destruction (given they broke the first sets).

That sounds like it would make perfect sense, so it almost certainly won't happen.
 

43096

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Could this therefore also mean a re-jig in how the 701s will be introduced? The last article I remember reading (don't shoot if it has changed since!) said 707s, then 455/6 and finally 458s, but could today's news see the 458s replaced next to enable them to go off for refurb, then the 455/6s last.
Depending on the return of passenger numbers post-Covid, I'd actually do it differently: 707s first, then 455/456, then 458s for refurb. As the 458s are long-term leased now, might as well keep them in use longest and save on the other fleets' leases - depends on passenger numbers though.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Depending on the return of passenger numbers post-Covid, I'd actually do it differently: 707s first, then 455/456, then 458s for refurb. As the 458s are long-term leased now, might as well keep them in use longest and save on the other fleets' leases - depends on passenger numbers though.

Replacement of fleets is usually down to overhaul cycles and what is due when.
 

rdlover777

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kind of a tongue and cheek idea me and a friend were spitballing but if they'll fit gauging wise, im sure SE could use them on the longer routes like London to Ashford along the SE Mainline
 

Journeyman

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kind of a tongue and cheek idea me and a friend were spitballing but if they'll fit gauging wise, im sure SE could use them on the longer routes like London to Ashford along the SE Mainline
Given that they don't even remotely work properly right now, the only future is bean cans.
 

Bald Rick

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kind of a tongue and cheek idea me and a friend were spitballing but if they'll fit gauging wise, im sure SE could use them on the longer routes like London to Ashford along the SE Mainline

Given that they don't even remotely work properly right now, the only future is bean cans.

And they don’t fit gauging wise. Although they will when bean cans.
 

trentside

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It was only just over a year ago SWR were celebrating their virtues

View attachment 93441

Oh and according to Paul Clifton BBC they've spent £45m on re-tractioning and refurbishment. Of course thats petty change now with billions being expended on Covid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000tsrx/south-today-evening-news-31032021 starts about 10m20.

It might be petty change in the Covid world but they wasted £45m on trains that couldn’t provide the accessibility the 21st Century railway requires. The 442s trade on their past glory in the enthusiast community but they are simply not fit for purpose now.

I hope no more pie in the sky ideas appear and we can draw their chapter to a close now.
 

Steddenm

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Sorry if this has been mentioned but just seen this on Google...

Class 442s to leave South Western Railway​

31 March 2021

South Western Railway has halted the project to refurbish 18 Class 442 electric multiple-units for its London Waterloo to Portsmouth route, and the sets will now be returned to leasing company Angel Trains.

UK: South Western Railway has halted the project to refurbish 18 Class 442 electric multiple-units for its London Waterloo to Portsmouth route, and the sets will now be returned to leasing company Angel Trains.
 

Journeyman

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The 442s trade on their past glory in the enthusiast community but they are simply not fit for purpose now.

I hope no more pie in the sky ideas appear and we can draw their chapter to a close now.
Absolutely agree. They're finished now.
 

trentside

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Absolutely agree. They're finished now.

Trains should be accessible for all. 442s aren’t. This means they don’t have a place on the modern railway.

They ride well and they were superb, comfortable trains in their day but it’s done.
 

spark001uk

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I just don't get it, what a bizarre decision. I've no enthusiastic nostalgia for the 442s, but they've had all that cash spent on them and are almost ready to go, and then they say "oh no let's ditch that, and spend another pile of cash we don't have, on the 458s". Makes no sense to me! We're told passenger numbers won't recover enough to need the 442s, so how come we suddenly need the 458s??
 

ShadowKnight

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Two things have come to mind after hearing this, will the world speed record (for a 3rd rail train) setting unit be preserved in some form?
Secondly there could be an opportunity for a conversion to a Pullman/Brighton belle/belmond style operation?
 

Journeyman

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Be nice if one of these was preserved for charter operations though.
Good luck with that - they don't work. They also now don't have buffets or decent first class, so I can't really see what a charter operator would want with them. They can hardly go anywhere, either.

Two things have come to mind after hearing this, will the world speed record (for a 3rd rail train) setting unit be preserved in some form?
Secondly there could be an opportunity for a conversion to a Pullman/Brighton belle/belmond style operation?
The record breaking unit was 2401, which has already been stripped for spares and may already have been partially scrapped.

And...no. They don't work properly, have very limited route availability, and the market for luxury charters is small and already well-served. Also, look how many difficulties the Brighton Belle restoration has faced - will it ever run?
 
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