Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[Nym]

Wasn't just AC. Many, many other problems

 

[Western Sunset]

It'd be a real shame if a vehicle from a unit holding the world record for 3rd rail traction was just cut-up.

 

[Journeyman]

It'd be a real shame if a vehicle from a unit holding the world record for 3rd rail traction was just cut-up.

Would it? Someone needs to be willing to take it on, and it doesn't look hugely hopeful.

 

[43096]

Would it? Someone needs to be willing to take it on, and it doesn't look hugely hopeful.

There's probably more of a case for the NRM taking it than for having two production HST power cars, one of which is of minimal historical significance in the overall scheme of things.

 

[driverd]

I can't be the only person who would rather see them cut up, than going stale and mouldy in some siding, as an unloved addition to a museum or railway where they never really had a home.

Just look at the thumpers (and no doubt the pacers), loads saved, but next to none actually preserved. The bulk of them rotting in sidings and looking thoroughly unloved, it's not a very honourable retirement - in that sense I'd much rather just see them consigned to the history books (although in a modern world, I suppose I should say, YouTube videos).

 

[Tobbes]

I don't understand why the NRM deacessioned the single driving car from the record-breaking set; it tells a number of stories - the apogee of 'Southern Electric' that the early EMUs in the collection began; in NSE colours, the sectorisation and pre-privatisation era; the importance of improving crashworthiness over the Mark 1-based stock, and the importance of passenger comfort and safety (air-con; power locking doors).

Given the hodge-podge nature of the National Collection, this strikes me as a very odd decision.

 

[D365]

I hope the AC problem that caused their ultimate demise comes to light. I'm sure it will be good eye rolling material.

alternating current or air conditioning?

 

[D7666]

Just look at the thumpers (and no doubt the pacers), loads saved, but next to none actually preserved. The bulk of them rotting in sidings and looking thoroughly unloved,

Spot on.

Then go from those DEMU to contemporary EMU, be it Hap/EPB of very similar cars, or gangwayed Cig/Cep, or the EMU of other regions, they see very very little use, because they are not practical for general preserved railway operations. Sure everyone can cite one set used here and another one there, but none are regular routine use. Then when you go to a 442, you go one step further - power doors and air-con are a whole new ball game to use regularly.

 

[Journeyman]

Spot on.

Then go from those DEMU to contemporary EMU, be it Hap/EPB of very similar cars, or gangwayed Cig/Cep, or the EMU of other regions, they see very very little use, because they are not practical for general preserved railway operations. Sure everyone can cite one set used here and another one there, but none are regular routine use. Then when you go to a 442, you go one step further - power doors and air-con are a whole new ball game to use regularly.

Yeah. EMUs of the EPB generation can be loco hauled quite easily by any air braked loco, and they don't need an electrical supply, but more recent ones are just no good at all. Sad to say, a lot more classes will become extinct in future because they're far beyond the ability of heritage railways to maintain them in working order, and they can't easily be hauled/powered.

My local heritage railway was offered, and turned down, a 314. It caused outrage among some enthusiasts, but honestly, it would need 60m of valuable siding space for the unit, and to operate in service, it would also need a translator vehicle, so that's another non-passenger vehicle taking time, space and effort away from restoring vehicles which are much more appealing to visitors, and of more historic interest.

 

[VEP3417]

im one of thos people who easily misses things, and i know theyve had problems for a whilst, there was also a lot of rumours of them being scrapped which lots of people said was just that, a rumour

almost seems like an overnight decision to me going from...refurbishment and testing to....well now weve done all that, probably best to scrap them now, has there been any other moment in time where a fully refurbished train has lasted not very long before scrapping? new paint and all

i guess theres still some at bournemouth? if so id like to see some if/when they go to wolverton or where ever for scrap so thanks to the people for updating the timings now and again as thats quite useful as i took loads of pics when they where newly refurbished/testing/being dragged

also there appears to be a light loco move from eastleigh to bournemouth depot later this evening, not sure if thats connected with anything 442 related or ready for a future movement ect

Realtime Trains - 0Y96 1747 Eastleigh East Yard to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Western Sunset]

It will be; there's 5Y97 2132 BM - Eastleigh later this evening. Still plenty of 442s to clear-out from BM. Here are the locos used on the Tuesday run...

 

[VEP3417]

ahh yes just seen, i missed tuesdays run unfortunately, and will probably miss the one later on in the evening

 

[StephenHunter]

The Axeman cometh...

More the pigs have gone to the abattoir.

 

[bramling]

There's probably more of a case for the NRM taking it than for having two production HST power cars, one of which is of minimal historical significance in the overall scheme of things.

That depends on how one looks at it. As things have turned out, the 442 hasn’t really proved the most successful of rolling stock, unlike the HST which it’s fair to say exceeded all expectations.

I see Alan Williams has mentioned the Portsmouth Line in this month’s MR, I suspect we haven’t heard the end of the express versus suburban saga that’s played out since the 444s were redeployed 15 years ago. What the focus on 442s misses is they weren’t wonderfully popular with users either - what they actually want is the 444s back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That depends on how one looks at it. As things have turned out, the 442 hasn’t really proved the most successful of rolling stock, unlike the HST which it’s fair to say exceeded all expectations.

I see Alan Williams has mentioned the Portsmouth Line in this month’s MR, I suspect we haven’t heard the end of the express versus suburban saga that’s played out since the 444s were redeployed 15 years ago. What the focus on 442s misses is they weren’t wonderfully popular with users either - what they actually want is the 444s back.

There is a good level of door position prejudice going on. I just don't see what's not to like about something similar to a 350/1 for this sort of service. There is really not a lot wrong with them in Standard.

 

[Bald Rick]

There is a good level of door position prejudice going on. I just don't see what's not to like about something similar to a 350/1 for this sort of service. There is really not a lot wrong with them in Standard.

Agree entirely. If 365s are / were good enough for Peterborough / Kings Lynn to London, and 377s good enough for the West Sussex coast to London, then updated 458s are good enough for Portsmouth.

 

[VEP3417]

there they go to pick up the 442s, sadly i wont be able to catch the return journey as its at 10/10.30 at night i think

 

[StephenHunter]

Never got a chance to ride on the 442s, but I like the 444s from my experience on them.

 

[444045]

U.442402 & U.442420 going with 66759/73212/73213 on 5Y97 21+32 BM to EH for onward movement to Wolverton tomorrow.

 

[Western Sunset]

"The Flying Dustman" (someone has a sense of humour in allocating these locos to the scrap drags) at BM Depot assembling its train.

 

[antharro]

Edited.

Train was running late, so I had time to get to Christchurch to see it pass. Got to the station in plenty of time, found a spot on the platform, made sure my phone's camera was good to go, set to 4k video... heard the train, hit the record button... and the stupid phone set the video brightness to zero. Couldn't see damn thing except the headlights. So angry with this POS phone right now.

When's the next scrap move?

 

[VEP3417]

it happens to e best of us, happened to me when trying to take pics of a 442 drag ages ago with a 47, went to take a pic, pressed the button and the camera turned off!!

the 66 does look a bit like a biffa bin....

 

[Western Sunset]

2413 and 2415 MIGHT be the next pair to go - presumably next week.

 

[VEP3417]

ive checked rtt and nothing is showing up for next week, unless it gets added in some point if anyone could keep an eye out if it does get updated

 

[Western Sunset]

The current disposition of SWR class 442s (end of May 2021):
2402 AC motors. Now returned to Wolverton (ex-BM)
2403 AC motors @ BM
2404 AC motors @ BM
2406 At Wolverton when project terminated
2408 AC motors @ BM
2409 Still dc @ BM
2410 Still dc. Now returned to Wolverton (ex-BM)
2411 AC motors @ BM
2413 AC motors @ BM
2414 AC motors @ BM
2415 AC motors @ BM
2416 At Wolverton when project terminated
2417 At Wolverton when project terminated
2418 AC motors @ BM
2419 AC motors. Now returned Wolverton (ex-BM)
2420 Still dc. Now returned to Wolverton (ex-BM)
2422 AC motors @ BM
2423 At Wolverton when project terminated

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is it two complete sets or two individual carriages, that have been scrapped so far?

 

[43096]

Is it two complete sets or two individual carriages, that have been scrapped so far?

One complete set (2421), 4 of 5 from one set (2401) and the motor cars of four others scrapped so far.

 

[adc82140]

One complete set (2421), 4 of 5 from one set (2401) and the motor cars of four others scrapped so far.

Is there any further use planned for the remaining carriages? (and before anyone says anything I don't mean harebrained ideas for loco haulage, I mean things like target practice for the army, or fire service training etc)

 

[Tempest3K]

I don't understand why the NRM deacessioned the single driving car from the record-breaking set; it tells a number of stories - the apogee of 'Southern Electric' that the early EMUs in the collection began; in NSE colours, the sectorisation and pre-privatisation era; the importance of improving crashworthiness over the Mark 1-based stock, and the importance of passenger comfort and safety (air-con; power locking doors).

Given the hodge-podge nature of the National Collection, this strikes me as a very odd decision.

The NRM aren't known for their logical decision making - just look at flying moneypit... I'd totally agree that this is worth of a place in the NRM but suspect they filed it under the 'too difficult' category as it's not a kettle.

 

[CBlue]

Is there any further use planned for the remaining carriages? (and before anyone says anything I don't mean harebrained ideas for loco haulage, I mean things like target practice for the army, or fire service training etc)

Baked bean tins?