Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[HamworthyGoods]

Pretty sure there are problems both at Earlsfield and Waterloo, with the former occurring immediately after the 9B90 442 service passed Earlsfield.
This suggests that the 442 ‘potentially’ caused the track circuit failure in Earlsfield.

I understand the issue at Earlsfield is a repeat incident from Friday (when there weren’t 442s out) and it’s misfortune that when it dropped it was after a 442, when it dropped in Friday it was after a desiro....

As people said previously it was the signal dropping out in advance of the 442.

 

[superalbs]

So these ones entering service now, are they with new motors?

 

[Thumper1127]

So these ones entering service now, are they with new motors?

No, that's still to happen.

 

[cactustwirly]

Thank you and by Portsmouth Direct line for those of us still not fully aware of the specific SWR line names on the forum

is Portsmouth direct line,

the Portsmouth via Winchester?

or Portsmouth via Guildford?

Take a guess! One of them is a lot more direct than the other....

 

[Snow1964]

Todays problems are in the throat of Waterloo and unrelated to the 442.

Bit more than that :
Currently showing 4 line updates, 7 cancellations (in next 3 hours), 35 train updates (in next 3 hours), 10 other problems
https://www.journeycheck.com/swr/

 

[AmericanRich]

I gather the first train from Poole arrived on time?

Looking at RTT, it appears the largest delays are SDO stations. The 442s only open 5 or 10 whereas there is more flexibility with the Desiros.

it will take a few days to stop commuters waiting the full length of the available platform.

Having used this service today, this was indeed the case at Liss and Liphook, and I can imagine it was more pronounced at Fratton given the general tendencies there. You would hope there would be announcements, etc., but I somehow doubt it.

I also noticed at Waterloo that people seemed to be taking an extra split-second to negotiate the very narrow step down, which as ever when multiplied by the number of people on board can start to make a difference.

 

[Goldfish62]

Bit more than that :
Currently showing 4 line updates, 7 cancellations (in next 3 hours), 35 train updates (in next 3 hours), 10 other problems
https://www.journeycheck.com/swr/

Just a normal day in SWR Land.

 

[Bigfoot]

Pretty sure there are problems both at Earlsfield and Waterloo, with the former occurring immediately after the 9B90 442 service passed Earlsfield.
This suggests that the 442 ‘potentially’ caused the track circuit failure in Earlsfield.

Completely missed the Earlsfield issue when I looked earlier. I agree, at least the first 442 got passed it rather than changing it infront

 

[strimmer]

Why not do some research if you’re that bothered? One of my pet hates is people expecting to be spoon-fed everything.

Totally agree with you on that.

 

[spark001uk]

Quick question, without wanting to drift OT too much: Briefly, is a COA ahead of a train an actual fault condition designed to trigger under certain circumstances, or is it something that should never happen at all?

 

[pompeyfan]

Change of aspects can happen for a variety of reasons, but they shouldn’t be happening, if a driver sees a signal go to a more restrictive aspect, they bring the train to a stop and contact signaller to find out why.

 

[Thumper1127]

A Change of Aspect in front of a train is where the signal turns to a more restrictive aspect. In most cases this is to red, meaning that as far as the signalling is concerned, the section in front is not confirmed as being clear. It is a "fail-safe" situation - "If I don't KNOW the section ahead is clear, my default position is that it is not". A "Wrong side failure" is the opposite - a signal indicating it is safe to proceed when it is not - VERY SERIOUS (Clapham etc).

 

[SteveZodiac]

Totally agree with you on that.

I generally disagree with that. Sometimes forums like this can be great places to ask questions, and there will always be specific topics where you are less clued up than others (and v.v.). Constant spoon-feeding can be annoying, but there should still be little need for put-downs (which let this forum down sometimes).

 

[Rick1984]

I gather the first train from Poole arrived on time?

Looking at RTT, it appears the largest delays are SDO stations. The 442s only open 5 or 10 whereas there is more flexibility with the Desiros.

it will take a few days to stop commuters waiting the full length of the available platform.

That'll be fun if your in the wrong 5-car portion and have to battle through a crowded train!

 

[jfollows]

I generally disagree with that. Sometimes forums like this can be great places to ask questions, and there will always be specific topics where you are less clued up than others (and v.v.). Constant spoon-feeding can be annoying, but there should still be little need for put-downs (which let this forum down sometimes).

I agree, I know we're now heading off-topic but it seems to me that for every one person asking a "simple" question there are 99 other confused readers who don't ask the question. And answering in a manner akin to a put-down is unfriendly, unhelpful and unnecessary. If there's a simple answer to the question, just give it politely if you know it. Or say nothing.

 

[rogue246]

6th January 2020 Waterloo 442`s Active 442403, 442406, 442408, 442410, 442413, 442414, 442417, 442420

 

[theironroad]

With respect, I don’t think there’s PRM at Basingstoke any more, but happy to be corrected by @Bigfoot or @theironroad.

Im surprised the output at rail is similar for a 442 and 444, they certainly feel a lot more sluggish.

I don't think it was meant PRM as operated by the driver, rather that desiros are technically restricted from drawing full power.

The only PRM a few days ago was worting jnc to Basingstoke on the up slow.

 

[Snow1964]

Saw a pair of 442s passing Cobham (towards Waterloo) at about 16:10
So looks like using the Guildford new line as well

 

[pompeyfan]

Saw a pair of 442s passing Cobham (towards Waterloo) at about 16:10
So looks like using the Guildford new line as well

thats was the diverted 9P50 due to a signal problem at Woking

 

[BRX]

It’s been covered many times on here. Using the search function on here or Google (try “Class 442 Portsmouth”) brings up the answer. It’s even on the SWR website.

In this case the question was whether operation via Guildford was temporary or a long term arrangement. It didn't seem an unreasonable question to me and it's not one that's definitively answered on, for example, the SWR website. It's a question that would take someone a few seconds to answer, and a query that anyone not interested in engaging with could scroll past in milliseconds. The answer may well be of interest to other readers.

 

[cactustwirly]

In this case the question was whether operation via Guildford was temporary or a long term arrangement. It didn't seem an unreasonable question to me and it's not one that's definitively answered on, for example, the SWR website. It's a question that would take someone a few seconds to answer, and a query that anyone not interested in engaging with could scroll past in milliseconds. The answer may well be of interest to other readers.

It's a long term arrangement until the next franchise, the 442s WILL NOT be going to Weymouth or Bournemouth, except for a handful of late night/early morning services to get them to/from Bournemouth TMD

 

[Western Sunset]

Because SWR don't want to attach/detach Class 442s during the course of a day, they won't be seen at Weymouth, as power supplies beyond Poole can't usually accommodate 10-car trains. Also there isn't passenger demand beyond Bournemouth for 10-car sets. Hence Class 444s will continue on the Bournemouth line, except for a few turns as mentioned in post 4550.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Because SWR don't want to attach/detach Class 442s during the course of a day, they won't be seen at Weymouth, as power supplies beyond Poole can't usually accommodate 10-car trains. Also there isn't passenger demand beyond Bournemouth for 10-car sets. Hence Class 444s will continue on the Bournemouth line, except for a few turns as mentioned in post 4550.

There also aren’t enough of them - with a service attaching/detaching 2/3 of the way you need all the same type of stock ideally.

 

[30909]

SDO and 442s unless there are future changes to their diagrams on the Direct, currently they only make one call each way at a short platform station and that's Fratton. When they were on the Direct previously the guard made announcements at each call that passengers for Fratton should travel in the front 5 coaches, I don't think it should be a problem.

 

[theironroad]

SDO and 442s unless there are future changes to their diagrams on the Direct, currently they only make one call each way at a short platform station and that's Fratton. When they were on the Direct previously the guard made announcements at each call that passengers for Fratton should travel in the front 5 coaches, I don't think it should be a problem.

It seems the same can't be said for the 2105 wat to poo which is diagrammed as a 442. Loads of sdo.

Probably would have been better to diagram it to the 2235 wat to poo which doesn't have any sdo stops. Only issue is that as it comes off the Pompey direct arriving at wat at 2051 it would occupy a platform at Waterloo for 1hr44 minutes, though maybe could leave Pompey harbour later? Other possible issue is that it would get to Bournemouth depot an hour later which maybe is needed for exam time.... Either way it's going to be initially very confusing for passengers and some guards as 442 sdo means front 5 carriages only while some stations have more coaches accommodated on 450/444 asdo....

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It seems the same can't be said for the 2105 wat to poo which is diagrammed as a 442. Loads of sdo.

Probably would have been better to diagram it to the 2235 wat to poo which doesn't have any sdo stops. Only issue is that as it comes off the Pompey direct arriving at wat at 2051 it would occupy a platform at Waterloo for 1hr44 minutes, though maybe could leave Pompey harbour later? Other possible issue is that it would get to Bournemouth depot an hour later which maybe is needed for exam time.... Either way it's going to be initially very confusing for passengers and some guards as 442 sdo means front 5 carriages only while some stations have more coaches accommodated on 450/444 asdo....

The 21.05 Poole is chosen to get the units back in reasonable time for maintenance and it’s also unusual for the train to be affected by engineering works whereas the 22.35 often terminates at Southampton.

It’s also worth noting that many of the short platform stations beyond Southampton such as Totton, Ashurst, Sway, New Milton, Hinton, Parkstone are front 5 only whether it’s 444 or 442

 

[pompeyfan]

However Liphook and Liss on the 1Gxx services call at Liphook and Liss which are 5 on a 442 and 7 on 444.

 

[theironroad]

The 21.05 Poole is chosen to get the units back in reasonable time for maintenance and it’s also unusual for the train to be affected by engineering works whereas the 22.35 often terminates at Southampton.

It’s also worth noting that many of the short platform stations beyond Southampton such as Totton, Ashurst, Sway, New Milton, Hinton, Parkstone are front 5 only whether it’s 444 or 442

Think that depends where the engineering work is, as the 2235 is usually the last one through intact and terminate at sou from the 2305 onwards, unless it's a diversion vianthe Pompey direct when it seems that the 2235 is binned altogether and the 2205&2305 run through.

I'll grant you maybe that the list of sdo isn't quite as long as it may seem compared to a 444. Suppose it leaves Christchurch, pokesdown really

 

[HamworthyGoods]

However Liphook and Liss on the 1Gxx services call at Liphook and Liss which are 5 on a 442 and 7 on 444.

Those two are the bigger challenge as will be Fratton.

 

[theironroad]

Those two are the bigger challenge as will be Fratton.

Tbh, Fratton platform lengths should have been sorted a long time ago as it's a busy station. However, without relocating the station it may be a while before platforms are lengthened.