Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's a waiting game to see if there will be space in between to put ones bag, if the pre 442 introduction timetable is the one being used

True never liked travelling that way when I had to and probably 50% of the middle seats were never occupied people would stand although always the risk on the three was someone would dump themselves in between you and then you'd be squashed especially on the window seat immobilised do do anything. Better to have 2+2 even if the pitch is tightened up.

All this nonsense came when politicians decided people standing for too long was going to be a target so once you have a target you find a way round it by squashing in more seats. Thameslink took the right approach with 2+2 but without a centre armrest you get a similar problem with 2+3 as passengers on the aisle seat hang over into the aisle or the seat is left unoccupied.

 

[swt_passenger]

No you haven't. There are 91 class 455s on SWR. 4X91=364

I think you’re reading that reply out of context. @Bald Rick was correcting the numbers, the earlier proposal in post #5857 was that there weren’t enough 701 vehicles to replace the existing suburban fleets.

 

[infobleep]

True never liked travelling that way when I had to and probably 50% of the middle seats were never occupied people would stand although always the risk on the three was someone would dump themselves in between you and then you'd be squashed especially on the window seat immobilised do do anything. Better to have 2+2 even if the pitch is tightened up.

All this nonsense came when politicians decided people standing for too long was going to be a target so once you have a target you find a way round it by squashing in more seats. Thameslink took the right approach with 2+2 but without a centre armrest you get a similar problem with 2+3 as passengers on the aisle seat hang over into the aisle or the seat is left unoccupied.

I would be that peeosn who'd sit in the middle. I prefer to sit down rather than stand if I have a 30-40 minute journey.

I usually found most middle sits were taken during peak rush hour. Of course times have changed and it remains to be seen what happens and thus whether the 2+2 sitting would be something that enough customers would like, based on how busy the 2=3 seating rolling stock is.

 

[pigs bay]

re the direct service to Weymouth....Why not bring back the Poole semi-fast using the 442's on that as they can run as 10-cars, leaving the 444's for the hourly fast service to Weymouth, as it was in NSE days
the 442's are back where they belong WITH new traction gear and the Weymouth still gets an hourly fast service to Waterloo.......everyone should be happy !!!!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

re the direct service to Weymouth....Why not bring back the Poole semi-fast using the 442's on that as they can run as 10-cars, leaving the 444's for the hourly fast service to Weymouth, as it was in NSE days
the 442's are back where they belong WITH new traction gear and the Weymouth still gets an hourly fast service to Waterloo.......everyone should be happy !!!!

I wouldn’t be happy if my service to London has cut from half-hourly to hourly... especially not for no reason other than to use up old trains.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

re the direct service to Weymouth....Why not bring back the Poole semi-fast using the 442's on that as they can run as 10-cars, leaving the 444's for the hourly fast service to Weymouth, as it was in NSE days
the 442's are back where they belong WITH new traction gear and the Weymouth still gets an hourly fast service to Waterloo.......everyone should be happy !!!!

That exact idea was consulted by SWR for the December 2018 Timetable (so not very long ago); a slightly faster Weymouth - London service (but only once an hour) and the old Semi-Fast service to Poole, shall we say everyone was far from happy and the proposal was dropped in favour of Weymouth retaining 2 London services per hour....

Public objections prompt SWR rethink on timetable plans

SWR cust back plans for a radical shake-up of its timetable following widespread opposition

www.railmagazine.com

“By far the largest number of complaints related to the Weymouth cuts, which involved one of the hourly London services being replaced”

I doubt anyone would suggest reopening old wounds after that.

 

[southern442]

deleted

 

[spark001uk]

deleted

Your message, or the class?

 

[southern442]

Your message, or the class?

We shall have to see about that

 

[Peter Sarf]

Slightly OT, but relevant - had Scotrail built new, the case for the rolling programme of electrification would have been significantly weaker. As it is, with expensive and thirsty HSTs running around, with less than a decade left in them, the case for taking the wires to Aberdeen and even Inverness looks much better.

True, this would be a real danger to electrification otherwise. Doing something that prevents electrification long term. It is why there is maybe a shortage of DMUs - the expected roll out of electrification would/should have used up spare EMUs. Iirc DFT were then left to promote some new DMUs.

 

[MatthewRead]

I cannot believe there isn't any demand for the 442's are commuter levels really not going to rise up again in September surely that would justify restarting the programme.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I cannot believe there isn't any demand for the 442's are commuter levels really not going to rise up again in September surely that would justify restarting the programme.

They’ll rise but not by nearly as much as you think. Most of the commuters have worked from hoe for over a year and love the flexibility and better work/life balance it can offer. They won’t want to be forced back into the office full time.

 

[southern442]

They’ll rise but not by nearly as much as you think. Most of the commuters have worked from hoe for over a year and love the flexibility and better work/life balance it can offer. They won’t want to be forced back into the office full time.

Slightly off-topic, but I think the change in commuting patterns, assuming travel outside of these times becomes more 'back to normal' (which it seems to already be doing), might just be SWR's saving grace. If we could have trains that were well-used in off-peak and slightly less crowded in the peak, this would ease some of the capacity problems, and perhaps they would be able to make do without needing any extra units like the 442s.

 

[dingdinger]

I doubt if we will ever see 442s back in service. Also doesn't seem likely that post covid the timetable will be restored to the level it was pre covid.

 

[Bald Rick]

I cannot believe there isn't any demand for the 442's are commuter levels really not going to rise up again in September surely that would justify restarting the programme.

You better believe it!

 

[172101]

I cannot believe there isn't any demand for the 442's are commuter levels really not going to rise up again in September surely that would justify restarting the programme.

GTR are getting rid of the 365's and LNWR are possiblly getting rid of the 319's as they will not be needed any more, so why would SWR need the 442's? Plenty of 444's and 450's to cover everything.
TFL also may have to reduce all the tube serivces as well, as the London commute will never be the same again. (Quote from yesterdays Telegragh)

 

[swt_passenger]

GTR are getting rid of the 365's and LNWR are possiblly getting rid of the 319's as they will not be needed any more, so why would SWR need the 442's? Plenty of 444's and 450's to cover everything.
TFL also may have to reduce all the tube serivces as well, as the London commute will never be the same again. (Quote from yesterdays Telegragh)

However LNWR already had planned replacements (730s) ordered for their 319s. It’s not the same situation as the 365s, which is clearly a reaction to the current situation.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

GTR are getting rid of the 365's and LNWR are possiblly getting rid of the 319's as they will not be needed any more, so why would SWR need the 442's? Plenty of 444's and 450's to cover everything.
TFL also may have to reduce all the tube serivces as well, as the London commute will never be the same again. (Quote from yesterdays Telegragh)

The 442s weren’t brought to SWR for extra capacity... in fact a 12/450 has more capacity - they were brought on as part of a franchise promise to deliver 2+2 seating to the Portsmouth line, so frankly the COVID pandemic shouldn’t affect their use

 

[BRX]

The reality is that we simply don't know yet, what's going to happen to commuting post covid. It seems very likely that things will not be the same, but we won't know how, until it actually happens.

Also, as has been mentioned already, many commuter trains (including the London underground) were operating massively over capacity. The reason given for this in many places was that the infrastructure was simply at capacity; it was just not possible to add more capacity without changing the infrastructure.

In those places, reducing the capacity of the services in proportion with the reduction of number of people travelling would imply that you continue to run overcrowded trains on a less frequent basis. And you would be doing this on lines which we know can support a more frequent service. And in the aftermath of a pandemic that will have made people much less willing to accept physically crowded conditions than they might have previously.

 

[Nogoohwell]

442's are too small a fleet to be bothering with. More hassle than they are worth, (unless you re-introduce the bar). The 455/6/8's and 707 are all going because its too many fleets and difficult to diagram crews. The biggest fleet is also the oldest so it makes sense to replace the lot.

Mainline youve got 158, 159 442, 444, 450. Ideally, SWR pre-pandemic probably would have wanted a single fleet here but the Desiros are too new to be replaced but can no longer buy new ones as previously mentioned.

Make operational and economic sense to replace the 442 and 158/159's with a new bi-mode fleet, possibly AT300's or similar would be far better all round.

 

[pompeyfan]

442s apparently are permanently withdrawn with 458s being reconfigured to 100mph 4 car units... or that’s what the rumour mill says.

 

[bb21]

It is now officially confirmed 442s will not be brought back into service.

(Cl 458s will be converted back to 4-car and re-geared for 100mph to be based at BM, but that is for another thread.)

 

[theironroad]

442s apparently are permanently withdrawn with 458s being reconfigured to 100mph 4 car units... or that’s what the rumour mill says.

Email just received, definitely not a rumour.

 

[handsomelife]

442s apparently are permanently withdrawn with 458s being reconfigured to 100mph 4 car units... or that’s what the rumour mill says.

True story. These 458's will be based at Bournemouth Depot.

 

[theironroad]

Changes to our fleet: Withdrawal of Class 442


we have taken the hard decision to permanently withdraw our Class 442 trains which haven’t been used since the start of the pandemic in March 2020.


There is positive news too that I am pleased to share with you that sets our fleet strategy and Bournemouth depot’s forward plans in the medium-term; we have extended our lease with Porterbrook for the Class 458s, who will be converting them back to 4-car 100mph units whilst at the same time refurbishing them to make them suitable for our longer-distance journeys. This fleet will be based at Bournemouth depot, going towards protecting the workforce there.



The Class 442 units will be retired from service and go through a process to remove useful spares and dispose of the vehicles. This is obviously an abrupt and unexpected end to the fleet; however, given the reduction in our customer numbers and expected future growth, we do have to take a realistic view of future demand and deliver the most efficient service we can for our customers and the taxpayer.

 

[theironroad]

Universal route clearance like the 450s too.

Yeah, I assume cleared for Weymouth at least as a 4 car and the odd 8 car.

I do shudder to wonder how much the whole 442 return project has cost over the last 3 years. Provided some jobs which is good, but otherwise not great.

 

[DorkingMain]

Yeah, I assume cleared for Weymouth at least as a 4 car and the odd 8 car.

I do shudder to wonder how much the whole 442 return project has cost over the last 3 years. Provided some jobs which is good, but otherwise not great.

Should have really been cancelled when the initial testing threw up so many issues with route clearance and the suspension

 

[theironroad]

Should have really been cancelled when the initial testing threw up so many issues with route clearance and the suspension

Cold storage and rust should have been a red flag too.

 

[theironroad]

I've created a new thread to discuss the retention of 458s: 458 Retained

Mod - related discussion now also moved over to new thread.

 

[Mordac]

The scrapman beckons. Squeal, piggies, squeal