Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[hwl]

That's the design of Compin seating for you. They're exactly the same on trains in France.

Now merged with Fainsa of Iron board fame...

 

[BucksBones]

In hindsight you get the impression that the best thing that could have and should have been done was to convert the 350/2s that are coming off lease into a 2+2 comfortable high spec unit. Fit ASDO to them and possibly brief the staff on any differences between the two types of Desiro and that would be that. For diagramming reasons they should be renumbered 451s to ensure they don’t routinely get mixed into a 450 diagram. If you had a 451 and a 444 coupled together you’d think most passengers wouldn’t really care.

Given that the 350/2s are perfect for LNR and would also be ideal for SWR, it seems reasonable to assume that Porterbrook have no one to blame but themselves for the fact that these excellent trains are about to go off-lease. SWR shouldn’t be faffing about with life-expired units, the whole thing is absurd.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that the 350/2s are perfect for LNR and would also be ideal for SWR

They aren't third-rail units. However, 350/1s are (they were originally ordered for SWT and diverted to the WCML), and logic would be a two-way swap if they did want more 20m Desiros and LNR didn't want them.

 

[BucksBones]

They aren't third-rail units. However, 350/1s are (they were originally ordered for SWT and diverted to the WCML), and logic would be a two-way swap if they did want more 20m Desiros and LNR didn't want them.

I know they’re not but they’re very easily converted aren’t they? Your solution is logical of course.

 

[pompeyfan]

I know they’re not but they’re very easily converted aren’t they? Your solution is logical of course.

If you do it that way don’t you then have to start dealing with different lease companies? I was also under the impression 350/2s were easily convertible into 750v D.C. units although willing to be proven different.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Given that the 350/2s are perfect for LNR and would also be ideal for SWR, it seems reasonable to assume that Porterbrook have no one to blame but themselves for the fact that these excellent trains are about to go off-lease. SWR shouldn’t be faffing about with life-expired units, the whole thing is absurd.

Why absurd? 442s were the only 3rd rail stock available at the time the SWR franchise competition was held and the ITT required early capacity increases.

The lease with Angel for 442s for SWR was signed long before it was announced the Portebrook 350/2s were coming off lease. It would be incredibly expensive to buy out the lease for the 442s from one leasing company AND lease the 350/s from another - don’t forget the leasing companies are in competition with each other...

 

[theironroad]

Why absurd? 442s were the only 3rd rail stock available at the time the SWR franchise competition was held and the ITT required early capacity increases.

The lease with Angel for 442s for SWR was signed long before it was announced the Portebrook 350/2s were coming off lease. It would be incredibly expensive to buy out the lease for the 442s from one leasing company AND lease the 350/s from another - don’t forget the leasing companies are in competition with each other...

...and herein lies the problem of privatisation. ROSCOs on!y interested in competing to gain a market advantage and increase the bottom line for their shareholders.

The movement of rolling stock around the country should be on a cost neutral basis, to serve the travelling public rather than a money making opportunity.

 

[MatthewRead]

Been talking to manger's about their entry into service they are saying it's 2nd April but no guarantee.

 

[Goldfish62]

Been talking to manger's about their entry into service they are saying it's 2nd April but no guarantee.

At least it's not 1st April.

 

[pompeyfan]

2nd of April is the full uniform switchover too so I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some truth in that date. That said I still don’t think there’s many, if any, guards trained on them.

 

[HeelBurton]

Waterloo have been told all 442 training for us is cancelled UFN

 

[Goldfish62]

Waterloo have been told all 442 training for us is cancelled UFN

Oops!

 

[theironroad]

Waterloo have been told all 442 training for us is cancelled UFN

How many Waterloo drivers are are being trained ?

Also, what services as Waterloo working as I didn't think Waterloo went past Guildford down the direct anymore?

 

[pompeyfan]

How many Waterloo drivers are are being trained ?

Also, what services as Waterloo working as I didn't think Waterloo went past Guildford down the direct anymore?

Waterloo drivers got most/all of Wimbledon Park drivers Pompey Direct work a year or so ago I thought?

 

[387star]

Surprised how many admittedly off peak services via Guildford to Portsmouth are only 4 or 5 coaches

 

[387star]

Think desiros still be Used on the Guildford roure once 442s are introduced both 450 and 444?

 

[Train Boy]

Surprised how many admittedly off peak services via Guildford to Portsmouth are only 4 or 5 coaches

Here's the full diagrams, but likely to have alterations as it is for the May 2018 timetable.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Good afternoon all.

I have found online an actual picture of the interior of a refurbished Class 442.



Credits and source: https://forum.southwesternrailway.c...riors-of-the-refurbished-class-442-444-trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks decent. I particularly like the use of e-leather on headrests - saves things getting filthy and looks really classy.

 

[swt_passenger]

Think desiros still be Used on the Guildford roure once 442s are introduced both 450 and 444?

Yes. Always pretty obvious because they only have enough 442s to run a half hourly 10 car service. There must be significant numbers of Desiros in use on the other 2 tph on the Direct, and those via Eastleigh, and any peak extras. The only question is how many will be 12.450s as now, to keep the overall seat numbers up. I reckon, (and this has been pointed out in these forums by insiders before), that there’ll still be significant numbers of 450s operating.

 

[TEW]

Looks decent. I particularly like the use of e-leather on headrests - saves things getting filthy and looks really classy.

Spoilt by using flat cloth rather than moquette for the rest of the seat though, so they quickly look filthy.

 

[theironroad]

Here's the full diagrams, but likely to have alterations as it is for the May 2018 timetable.

Interesting post, thanks.

From that list that was published a few days ago I'm guessing it doesn't cover all 442 stock as seems a lot of peak trains in both directions are listed as 450 which. Maybe the ones listed for 442 are just the initial ones.

 

[theironroad]

Think desiros still be Used on the Guildford roure once 442s are introduced both 450 and 444?

The franchise proposal and plan was only for the fast services to be 442/444, ie the xx00 & xx30 off Waterloo. The xx15 &xx45 could well be 450.

 

[TEW]

Interesting post, thanks.

From that list that was published a few days ago I'm guessing it doesn't cover all 442 stock as seems a lot of peak trains in both directions are listed as 450 which. Maybe the ones listed for 442 are just the initial ones.

That list is the current timetable in which there are only 3 10-car 442 diagrams.

 

[HeelBurton]

Waterloo drivers got most/all of Wimbledon Park drivers Pompey Direct work a year or so ago I thought?

48 trained on Pompey. Apparently 12 to learn 442’s. Plan changed.

Picked up the first pompey from Wimbledon (suppose saves taxi costs for the company) and a random one in the afternoon. More coming in May we’ve been told. Everyone has nearly signed the route.

 

[387star]

Spoilt by using flat cloth rather than moquette for the rest of the seat though, so they quickly look filthy.

That's a shame even northern are moving away from that
Must say the red swt stuff still looks superb

Even 707s were treated to moquette?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That's a shame even northern are moving away from that
Must say the red swt stuff still looks superb

Even 707s were treated to moquette?

The red seats in the 444s look very tired....

 

[Railengineer]

Why do I always get the feeling this unit is not meant to be in service anymore? lol

This is the most sensible thread in this post. Well done the penny has finally dropped......

 

[Railengineer]

While many suggest that might be the solution, the inherent problem is that the power supply west of Poole cannot sustain 10-442 operation as regular working.

The alternative is that the the 10-442 detaches at Bournemouth , the next issue is then that station staff /shunters would have to be fully trained on attaching/detaching and all the staffing issues that brings in in.

Additionally, something swr have recognised is that there is some safety/capacity in running 10-442 as opposed to 5-442 as if the motors fail on a 5-442 the unit is failed and requires assistance, something that trains of their age will inevitably succumb to. running a 10-442 allows the formation to be cleared off the line to a place of refuge rather than blocking the line.

The whole programme is rather a gamble however and proving to be more expensive than originally envisaged I believe.

I love it that SWR have only just realised this!! SWT realised it when they ran them many years ago and fell over themselves to get rid. Whatever twit decided to reintroduce this heritage stock deserves all they get. If they actually get any running by the big May timetable change, make sure you don't get on one if you are in a hurry.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I love it that SWR have only just realised this!! SWT realised it when they ran them many years ago and fell over themselves to get rid. Whatever twit decided to reintroduce this heritage stock deserves all they get. If they actually get any running by the big May timetable change, make sure you don't get on one if you are in a hurry.

SSWT took 442s off lease as part of money saving initiative with 458s being offered at rock bottom price nothing to do with reliability - in fact the 442s were at that point achieving better MPC than the 458s, although subsequently before the rebuild into 458/5s the 458s did steadily climb the MPC table due to a lot of hard work by Wimbledon Depot.

SWR chose 442s as they were the only available DC stock that could be put into traffic fairly quickly to increase capacity; yes they are taking a while to get back into traffic but so are the brand new Bombadier Aventras to get into traffic.

With any new or reinstated train it’s always a bit of a gamble...