Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[Thumper1127]

If one more diagram comes in the week after next it would make sense to me to make it one of the three diagrams that were due to be introduced in December which starts and ends the day at Bournemouth:

5B89 0521 Bournemouth Depot to Poole 0530
1B90 0545 Poole to London Waterloo 0746
1P17 0800 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0936
1P32 1015 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1151
1P35 1230 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1408
1P50 1445 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1624
1P53 1700 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1836
1P68 1915 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2051
1B69 2105 London Waterloo to Poole 2329
5B70 2340 Poole to Bournemouth Depot 2349

The other two diagrams stable at different places each night (Bournemouth and Fratton), the above is self contained. This gives 8 passenger services a day, I believe the other give 6. Covering the 17:00 ex WAT with 442 is good. Also, if I am right covering this diagram releases 10-444 which could be used on a FTN starting diagram to cover one of the services currently 8-450. This in turn releases 8-450 which can be split to strengthen two more existing diagrams covered by 8-450 to 12-450.

 

[urpert]

It is a bit rubbish with only the yellow breaking up the monotony on the intermediate coaches

Would look better with a black/dark grey window band (like the GA Mk3s)

 

[winks]

The videos I’ve seen online in the last few days have suggested the refurb has been done to a very high standard. Someone earlier in the thread said it was rushed and there were signs of rust etc. Personally to see these operate for another 7-10 years is great.

 

[387star]

The old guards van appears to have a frosted door. Under Gatwick Express you could peer in. There was a flip down seat in there with SWT first class style upholstery on at least one unit

The interior doors look to still have the orange buttons. At one point I recall you had to slide an orange lever to operate them

 

[387star]

Would look better with a black/dark grey window band (like the GA Mk3s)

Yeah agree

The livery is remarkably cold with no warm colour aside from the yellow

 

[Bletchleyite]

Standard interior looks nice, I am a fan of the fake-leather headrests, they make things look very classy without the downside (sticky and slippy) of full leather. 2+2 First Class is a sham and should not be allowed to be marketed as such.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone know the actual seating capacity of the units now? It was quoted somewhere as 338 standard, which seems rather a lot.

Welcome to the forums.

Pompeyfan has quoted the numbers earlier, (they come from the franchise agreement originally), but in round numbers it works out at maybe about 76 average for each of 4 carriages and hence you’d need 34 for the remodelled end carriage, which is about half first class (32). That average will vary mainly because of the universal toilet position and guard’s compartment, but it isn’t significantly different to the original capacity of a typical end door 23m Mk 3 vehicle. A few additional airline seats here and there will balance the space taken by toilets and the guard...

 

[Bletchleyite]

A "traditional" Mk3 (10 tables) is 76, isn't it? Which is quite low-density, it's only lacking legroom due to the rubbish seats. So the more airline layout of the 442s shouldn't have any trouble achieving this.

 

[swt_passenger]

A "traditional" Mk3 (10 tables) is 76, isn't it? Which is quite low-density, it's only lacking legroom due to the rubbish seats. So the more airline layout of the 442s shouldn't have any trouble achieving this.

Yes 76 is pretty typical for a Mk3, so just checked a Platform 5 book from 2006, and at the end of their original life with SWT there were three ‘normal’ standard cars, two of 78, and one of 82. The middle car of the train had only 52 standard, what with the buffet and snug etc...

 

[Goldfish62]

Standard interior looks nice, I am a fan of the fake-leather headrests, they make things look very classy without the downside (sticky and slippy) of full leather. 2+2 First Class is a sham and should not be allowed to be marketed as such.

Still better than Southern 1st Class.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still better than Southern 1st Class.

True, at least you get different seats. SN's 1st is a joke and definitely shouldn't be allowed.

 

[387star]

True, at least you get different seats. SN's 1st is a joke and definitely shouldn't be allowed.

The seats in the /4s and /5s is different with a narrower armrest and larger headrest with two inward facing seats plus a sliding door and plug sockets as well

 

[Bletchleyite]

The seats in the /4s and /5s is different with a narrower armrest and larger headrest with two inward facing seats plus a sliding door and plug sockets as well

Sorry, what class?

 

[Thumper1127]

Week after the strikes should see a 2nd diagram introduced.

Has anyone in the inside got any idea of what the diagram may be? I posted earlier what I thought would make sense but that’s with no knowledge only a bit of logic, albeit without any thought to train crew diagramming.

 

[387star]

Sorry, what class?

377/4
377/5

 

[VEP3417]

talking of plain white this was some pics i took in late 2018

 

[pompeyfan]

DTC - 32F/42S
TS - 80S**
MLS - 68S
TSW - 68S (4 tip up)
DTC - 80S

Note that the TS currently is missing 6-8 seats to provide cycle accommodation, eventually one of the standard toilets will be removed and replaced with a stand up cycle storage area.

 

[RealTrains07]

The thing is with the striped livery you can easily see the vertical joins in the vinyl panels, and that's before they've had time to become worn.

Plus wasnt the reason why they switched from vinyl to paint livery was due to cost of the vinyl livery being too high?

 

[Bletchleyite]

377/4
377/5

(Googles)

Ah yes, very slightly different. Still not adequate though

Back to Wessies, it's odd how he raved about it in the video when all it is is a very good Standard class arrangement. Indeed, it's how Standard class will be in the GA FLIRTs.

 

[Goldfish62]

Plus wasnt the reason why they switched from vinyl to paint livery was due to cost of the vinyl livery being too high?

Well, I can imagine applying it wasn't straightforward.

 

[Goldfish62]

(Googles)

Ah yes, very slightly different. Still not adequate though

Back to Wessies, it's odd how he raved about it in the video when all it is is a very good Standard class arrangement. Indeed, it's how Standard class will be in the GA FLIRTs.

I wouldn't say he actually raved about it. I think he was just taking it on face value rather than comparing it with anything. Also, it's not as if it's the only 2+2 1st Class in the UK.

 

[700007]

If this is the Geoff Marshall video that you are referencing then probably worth noting that as he was given those complimentary tickets to ride (and presumably review) that train, SWR had an expectation for him to try and promote it in a good light and so naturally he did - especially as he travelled 1st class. I imagine SWR needed him for good publicity given the poor reputation they have.

A lot of TOCs have done that as of late with Geoff Marshall, particularly GTR who invites him to all sorts of events that may promote them in a good light. Although if I was PR manager, I would have to pull him aside for the amount of times in this video and previous videos he gets the company's name wrong - South Western Trains, South West Rail, South Western Rail - usually you should know the product you are promoting at least...

 

[hexagon789]

Also, it's not as if it's the only 2+2 1st Class in the UK.

The open First Class seating was 2+2 in BR and SWT days anyway, only the compartments were different to Standard aside from moquette iirc.

 

[Goldfish62]

The open First Class seating was 2+2 in BR and SWT days anyway, only the compartments were different to Standard aside from moquette iirc.

Yes, I believe you're right.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, I believe you're right.

The small two-bay, 14-seat saloon was introduced as Standard Class on early units before being upclassed.

 

[387star]

(Googles)

Ah yes, very slightly different. Still not adequate though

Back to Wessies, it's odd how he raved about it in the video when all it is is a very good Standard class arrangement. Indeed, it's how Standard class will be in the GA FLIRTs.

They also are unique in having glass partitions mid way down the outer coaches

 

[Pacerman99]

DTC - 32F/42S
TS - 80S**
MLS - 68S
TSW - 68S (4 tip up)
DTC - 80S

Note that the TS currently is missing 6-8 seats to provide cycle accommodation, eventually one of the standard toilets will be removed and replaced with a stand up cycle storage area.

Right, thank you, I thought the guards compartment would've taken up more space! I take it there must be a high 'airline seat to table seat' ratio in order for that amount of standard class seating, it is more than a refurbished 444!!

 

[piresistable]

Not quite the full Benny Hill at Woking, but amusing nonetheless. Station staff announced that the 07:19 would depart from Platform 1. Presumably this was because the fast from the Guildford line was 3L so the signaller thought it would save time to put the 442 on 1. So everyone trudged over to Platform 1.

I saw the 442 pull up at the signals before the junction. 10 minutes later and we’re told that it will go from Platform 2 after all. Most people didn't bother going back across as the 07:22 was coming in on 1 at the same time.

I guess the Woking to Waterloo slow line restriction applies to the platforms too.

 

[infobleep]

Not quite the full Benny Hill at Woking, but amusing nonetheless. Station staff announced that the 07:19 would depart from Platform 1. Presumably this was because the fast from the Guildford line was 3L so the signaller thought it would save time to put the 442 on 1. So everyone trudged over to Platform 1.

I saw the 442 pull up at the signals before the junction. 10 minutes later and we’re told that it will go from Platform 2 after all. Most people didn't bother going back across as the 07:22 was coming in on 1 at the same time.

I guess the Woking to Waterloo slow line restriction applies to the platforms too.

The 07:15 non-stopper to Waterloo passing through Woking past at 07:18. There was nothing further at platform 2 until the 07:17 arrival turned up at 0725½. This being the 442 from Southampton Airport Parkway.

So did other trains delay the 442 entering Woking station or was it related to it being pathed to platform 1?

 

[piresistable]

The 07:15 non-stopper to Waterloo passing through Woking past at 07:18. There was nothing further at platform 2 until the 07:17 arrival turned up at 0725½. This being the 442 from Southampton Airport Parkway.

So did other trains delay the 442 entering Woking station or was it related to it being pathed to platform 1?

Nothing else came through after the 07:15, so my guess is that the 442 was signalled on to the slow line at WK376 and the driver refused.