Class 442s - storage, refurbishment and redeployment

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spark001uk

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Out of interest, what's on this one?
That would be 47813, "Jack Frost".
I hear it's actually 0O86 now (no barriers), which confusingly was the hc given to this morning's Eastleigh to bomo via baltic, allocated 57305. However this doesn't appear to have run (maybe it was collected at Eastleigh?). I'm assuming this will form a top n tail on the 442 tomorrow.
 
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fgwrich

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That would be 47813, "Jack Frost".
I hear it's actually 0O86 now (no barriers), which confusingly was the hc given to this morning's Eastleigh to bomo via baltic, allocated 57305. However this doesn't appear to have run (maybe it was collected at Eastleigh?). I'm assuming this will form a top n tail on the 442 tomorrow.
Ah, thanks. I was wondering what the connection from Derby to Bournemouth had with the 442 program and that explains it.
 

Railengineer

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How is the refurbishment going now? Millions of pounds have been spent on upgrading the traction and all they seem to do is get hauled around the country. Anyone actually know what the upgrade progress is other than operating moves? They seem to be in and out of storage like yoyo's
Is it cost effective to keep throwing money at these or are they going to be deployed with the new traction working soon?
 
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Millions of pounds have been spent on upgrading the traction and all they seem to do is get hauled around the country.
You could argue that they have at least provided much employment, and continue to do so, but whether they will ever run in service as promised, what is it almost three years ago now is open to question. They also provide entertainment for those who follow their every move. It might ultimately go down as one of the worst decisions in the modern railway to throw so much money into a bottomless pit.
 

VEP3417

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thanks for the heads up earlier, managed to get a couple of snaps, would normally miss something like that as i dont 100% know how to read rtt or spot something unusual in the timings
dont mind taking photos and posting them if anyone knows of other unusual workings
DSCF2398.JPGDSCF2399.JPG
 

baza585

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New to this thread, though travelled on the Piggies most weekdays back in the days on the Weymouth line. They were a revelation then compared to the slam door stock they replaced. Can someone please throw any light on when the 350s (which potentially could put the 442s out of their misery) are expected to be released from LNWR?
 

Energy

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New to this thread, though travelled on the Piggies most weekdays back in the days on the Weymouth line. They were a revelation then compared to the slam door stock they replaced. Can someone please throw any light on when the 350s (which potentially could put the 442s out of their misery) are expected to be released from LNWR?
The 730s replacing them are meant to be built 2020-21 so probably 2022 will be the first ones being released. This will probably be impacted by covid though although I don't think production has been affected too much of the 730s.
 

baza585

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The 730s replacing them are meant to be built 2020-21 so probably 2022 will be the first ones being released. This will probably be impacted by covid though although I don't think production has been affected too much of the 730s.
Thank you. I wonder how much the 442 saga us costing SWR and the Rosco?
 

3141

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It possibly got SWR the franchise. Then bear in mind nothing ventured and nothing gained. Progress would not happen without trying things.
Getting the franchise is something they probably now regret, because quite apart from the 442 issues they've lost a lot of money on it. But according to Roger Ford and others, the bid by Stagecoach was non-compliant in that it did not meet some of the timetabling requirements set out in the tender documents (as Stagecoach knew enough about the line to realise that the DfT's expectations were unrealistic), and therefore could not have won.

It's interesting that while the class 455 retractioning went well (as far as I know), this job, and classes 230 and 769, have struggled to say the least, which suggests that attempting radical changes to older stock may be a risky enterprise.
 

Peter Sarf

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Getting the franchise is something they probably now regret, because quite apart from the 442 issues they've lost a lot of money on it. But according to Roger Ford and others, the bid by Stagecoach was non-compliant in that it did not meet some of the timetabling requirements set out in the tender documents (as Stagecoach knew enough about the line to realise that the DfT's expectations were unrealistic), and therefore could not have won.

It's interesting that while the class 455 retractioning went well (as far as I know), this job, and classes 230 and 769, have struggled to say the least, which suggests that attempting radical changes to older stock may be a risky enterprise.
I think the re-tractioning of 455s was a fairly logical next step compared to the 230s and 769s. But innovation must be allowed to try and will sometimes fail - otherwise it probably was not innovation.

As for SWT - yes I think they were being realistic and Daft did not (want to) see that. I have burnt my fingers that way - being right is not necessarily right. I now have a boss who really needs bull **** and I have been repeatedly reminded by my colleagues of that. An engineer would say KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
 

TEW

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455 retractioning was still rather delayed, and there were the slight teething issues involving equipment cases being blasted across Guildford station taking out the station furniture.
 
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455 retractioning was still rather delayed, and there were the slight teething issues involving equipment cases being blasted across Guildford station taking out the station furniture.
Reliability has been a bit hit and miss with the 455s to though I think that has settled down now?

Refurbishing old v buying new is one it’s very difficult to tell what is best in advance, a crystal ball would be wonderful.

Each time a set of mk3 HST vehicles go for scrap you get the “what a waste” and “why not put them on Cross-Country to boost capacity” comments but when the industry does try and life extend old stock for further use, prime examples being 442s and LNER mk3s cascaded to EMR you find they have been run into the ground and require far more work than anticipated...
 

Peter Sarf

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Reliability has been a bit hit and miss with the 455s to though I think that has settled down now?

Refurbishing old v buying new is one it’s very difficult to tell what is best in advance, a crystal ball would be wonderful.

Each time a set of mk3 HST vehicles go for scrap you get the “what a waste” and “why not put them on Cross-Country to boost capacity” comments but when the industry does try and life extend old stock for further use, prime examples being 442s and LNER mk3s cascaded to EMR you find they have been run into the ground and require far more work than anticipated...
We should be recycling where possible. Preferably without using energy to melt things down and re-form !. But it depends how out-of-date or worn-out things are of course.

My favourite example of mis-directed recycling is glass. Why do we have to melt the glass bottles down and make new bottles ?. They could instead be washed and re-used. That is what still happens to milk bottles. That is what used to happen to drinks bottles - they had a deposit on them so always found their way back to the shop rather than becoming litter. I am not saying exactly the same thing could happen on the railways - although re-using PROPER seats would be popular !.
 

pigs bay

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Does anyone know what is happening to 2401, as it's believed to have a driving car heading up to the York museum. does any one know what livery it will be and will it be re-fitted with the front covers.
 

Dougal2345

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Covers not being fitted would be the least of the unit's problems. There's a lot that was fitted that has now been removed.
It would be nice to see the little dot-matrix destination board on the nose restored too. Is it a DTF or DTS that's being preserved?
 

43096

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It would be nice to see the little dot-matrix destination board on the nose restored too. Is it a DTF or DTS that's being preserved?
The units didn’t have a DTF after being modified for Gatwick Express: both driving cars were DTS and the first class was in the motor car.
 

pompeyfan

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They’re now DTS and DTC, although I’m pretty sure the labels on the end of the carriages state the motor coach is still the motor composite
 

Railengineer

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455 retractioning was still rather delayed, and there were the slight teething issues involving equipment cases being blasted across Guildford station taking out the station furniture.
The retraction was delayed by a few months due to complexity of the project and availability of testing facilities. It was an equipment case cover that blew across Guildford station not the cases themselves. Detail is in the RAIB report
 

spark001uk

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Appears to be another move from Bournemouth to Wolverton in the system for this evening, 5Q70. Due to leave 1655.
Assume they're just going ahead with retractioning them all and trusting the system works? Still haven't heard of any Mainline testing on the first one.
 
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ANDREW_D_WEBB

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Appears to be another move from Bournemouth to Wolverton in the system for this evening, 5Q70. Due to leave 1655.
Assume they're just going ahead with retractioning them all and trusting the system works? Still haven't heard of any Mainline testing on the first one.
This appears to be cancelled. It has not yet left and the inbound working didn’t run either
 
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Plenty still at BM depot yesterday evening including 2408 on the road alongside the carriage washer, whilst 2409 and 2420 were stabled alongside Nelson Road.
 

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