Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[ExRes]

oh no, not ANOTHER 442 thread ..... :roll:

Thank goodness, I thought I'd seen this entire conversation somewhere before

 

[ScotGG]

The previous topic was about where else the 442s could move to, and the answer is not many places at all. This is more about how possible it is to keep them a couple more years on existing runs to Brighton & Eastbourne, and move some 377s/387s to Southeastern as a stop gap to help with overcrowding until relief comes in 2018.

 

[Bald Rick]

Possible use on SET of the 442's would be the T.Wells terminators. This would release 465/9's to Metro work. Mind you how long would the traction course be- aren't they two handed controls like the 319's

Oh, and they don't fit round any curves west of London Bridge.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

oh no, not ANOTHER 442 thread ..... :roll:

Well no one forced you to read it did they? You saw what the thread title was, so if the topic bores you don't read it. Simples!

 

[richa2002]

The purpose of this thread was to assert when the withdrawals will begin and what will be replacing them.

 

[physics34]

With the revised interior? No, thank you. You can keep them.

With so much overcrowding on South Eastern, the mind boggles that we would rather scrap perfectly serviceable trains than allow SET to have the 387/2s for a few years.

Ha ha.. i really dont think they will scrap them but there must be a use for them somewhere!!!

 

[RobShipway]

Ha ha.. i really dont think they will scrap them but there must be a use for them somewhere!!!

I thought 387/2 where replacing the class 442's, when they have started to come on line so to speak on the Gatwick services?

The only use I can see the class 442's having is as pulled coaches working in push/pull mode with a Class 73/9 replacing the Southern Class 171's, so that the class 171's can be moved to over routes to replace class 156/158's and then those replace some class 150's and class 150's replace some pacers on routes.

 

[hwl]

I thought 387/2 where replacing the class 442's, when they have started to come on line so to speak on the Gatwick services?

The only use I can see the class 442's having is as pulled coaches working in push/pull mode with a Class 73/9 replacing the Southern Class 171's, so that the class 171's can be moved to over routes to replace class 156/158's and then those replace some class 150's and class 150's replace some pacers on routes.

The dwell time and acceleration wouldn't be good for service performance on services with that many stops. Also see Baldrick's comments above about general reliability.

 

[theageofthetra]

Won't the west of London Bridge issue be resolved when the new bridge opens? Or is the problem further along?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The only place they'll be going after withdrawal will be the scrapyard. What classes diesel loco can haul them? Any preserved line that has them classes could perhaps take a unit but would it be viable for a preserved railway (cost and ease of maintenance)?

 

[Bishopstone]

The junk heaps broke down prior to departure on the Up Eastbourne this morning.

 

[Bald Rick]

Won't the west of London Bridge issue be resolved when the new bridge opens? Or is the problem further along?

They are barred anywhere north of Lewisham. Tight clearances everywhere.

 

[talldave]

The only place they'll be going after withdrawal will be the scrapyard. What classes diesel loco can haul them? Any preserved line that has them classes could perhaps take a unit but would it be viable for a preserved railway (cost and ease of maintenance)?

I would pay good money to go see them popped in the crusher

 

[swt_passenger]

The purpose of this thread was to assert when the withdrawals will begin and what will be replacing them.

Problem is that replacement of GatEx 442s by 387/2s immediately follows 387/1 delivery, (and so by the end of this year/early next), is already a known fact, covered in a number of previous threads - initially following GTRs announcement as franchise winner, and subsequently when the 387/2s were eventually confirmed.

It could equally well be suggested that this is yet another 387/2 thread...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I would pay good money to go see them popped in the crusher

Philistine. All they need is to be retractioned.

 

[AM9]

Philistine. All they need is to be retractioned.

These 'don't scrap the 442s' postings are beginning to sound like the Dead Parrot sketch.

 

[richa2002]

Problem is that replacement of GatEx 442s by 387/2s immediately follows 387/1 delivery, (and so by the end of this year/early next), is already a known fact, covered in a number of previous threads - initially following GTRs announcement as franchise winner, and subsequently when the 387/2s were eventually confirmed.

It could equally well be suggested that this is yet another 387/2 thread...

Apologies. Not all of us constantly keep up to date with every part of the modern railway, especially as plans seem to change frequently. Seeing as threads on here can often go into tens of pages, it's difficult to sort the actual information from the mountain of opinions.

 

[talldave]

Philistine. All they need is to be retractioned.

I'm biased - I spent almost 3 hours trapped on one in a freezing cold tunnel. It's not a very pleasant experience at all and seeing them consigned to transporting baked beans would be suitable revenge.

The incident did lead to one of the most surreal ticket checks ever - carried out under the dim glow of the emergency lighting.

 

[Chris Wallis]

Couldn't they have the couplings replaced - assuming that is required - and sent up to Northern to be dragged by Pacers?

Ahem....now where did I put that coat....

 

[LBSCR Times]

Couldn't they have the couplings replaced - assuming that is required - and sent up to Northern to be dragged by Pacers?

Ahem....now where did I put that coat....

Or even haul them down to Dawlish.....
To replace the containers on the sea wall!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

oh no, not ANOTHER 442 thread ..... :roll:

I am surprised that Atlantics are so popular still all these years after the end of steam...

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'm biased - I spent almost 3 hours trapped on one in a freezing cold tunnel. It's not a very pleasant experience at all and seeing them consigned to transporting baked beans would be suitable revenge.

The incident did lead to one of the most surreal ticket checks ever - carried out under the dim glow of the emergency lighting.

Which says that the juice rail was discharged. They won't go very far without electricity. A 377 would've been just as unpleasant.

 

[CosherB]

Another solution to a problem that doesn't exist? 48 new driving trailers available for conversion for LHCS? Mind you, with 16(?) Mk3B DVTs in storage, I can't envisage much demand for them ..... Booths it is then.

 

[sarahj]

I'm biased - I spent almost 3 hours trapped on one in a freezing cold tunnel. It's not a very pleasant experience at all and seeing them consigned to transporting baked beans would be suitable revenge.

The incident did lead to one of the most surreal ticket checks ever - carried out under the dim glow of the emergency lighting.

The only reason I can imagine someone doing a check is to find out who is going where. though there are one or two at the depot....

 

[richa2002]

Another solution to a problem that doesn't exist? 48 new driving trailers available for conversion for LHCS? Mind you, with 16(?) Mk3B DVTs in storage, I can't envisage much demand for them ..... Booths it is then.

The big difference between a DVT and 442 driving trailer is that a DVT is seen as a waste of space as it has no seating but a 442...

 

[route:oxford]

The only use I can see the class 442's having is as pulled coaches working in push/pull mode with a Class 73/9 replacing the Southern Class 171's, so that the class 171's can be moved to over routes to replace class 156/158's and then those replace some class 150's and class 150's replace some pacers on routes.

Hmm... How many Class 73s will there be in Scotland?

I'm thinking 442+73 on the Fife Circle.

 

[JB_B]

I have happy memories of commuting on 442s back in the early '90s ( in the snug!).

They certainly were problematic when returned from storage to work the Brightons (seemed terrible at the start and have never been quite right). The odd thing is that most of the problems i've encountered seem to be above deck ( doors / interlock / PA etc) – those bits are old but not the truly ancient parts – why do they cause more trouble?

(Certainly agree that, these days, going down to Weymouth a 444 would be prefereable)

 

[Peter Sarf]

I am surprised that Atlantics are so popular still all these years after the end of steam...

Yea right and soon they will be history like the 210s,
excepting the star of the very late afternoon of course :roll: .

 

[notadriver]

Juice up the North Downs line and use the 442s on there, nice 5 car sets that would be just right for the North Downs line with their 1600 hp under the MBLS or MLC, which would demolish the steep grades between Guildford & Redhill with aplomb.

They could also provide a through service to London as well, one 5 coming in from Wokingham & another coming in from Reigate to combine at Guildford as 10 car to London.

The 166s presently in use on the line are quicker than a 442 would be on third rail. I remember when the 159s came to SWT how it was they not the 442s that were quickest to accelerate

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The 166s presently in use on the line are quicker than a 442 would be on third rail. I remember when the 159s came to SWT how it was they not the 442s that were quickest to accelerate

No, but on the North Downs, their 5 car formations would be very useful in the peaks, their low down grunt would as I've said would get them up the gradients on that line with ease, the line speeds over the North Downs is only IIRC a maxima of 70 between Reading & Redhill, with 90 being available for the short section down to Gatwick.

Also, this would provide the North Downs with its own dedicated fleet & their use would release the 166s for use in the West country, especially around Bristol & Exeter.