Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[notadriver]

Hmmm maybe if third rail isn't an option then (I'm sure it's been mentioned before) one of those new class 73s in push pull mode but reduce the formation to a 4 car

 

[LowLevel]

No, but on the North Downs, their 5 car formations would be very useful in the peaks, their low down grunt would as I've said would get them up the gradients on that line with ease, the line speeds over the North Downs is only IIRC a maxima of 70 between Reading & Redhill, with 90 being available for the short section down to Gatwick.

Also, this would provide the North Downs with its own dedicated fleet & their use would release the 166s for use in the West country, especially around Bristol & Exeter.

How heavy are the gradients up there? 442s are not known for their hill climbing abilities !

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Worst is a short 1:91, but two or three longish 1:96.

 

[talldave]

Which says that the juice rail was discharged. They won't go very far without electricity. A 377 would've been just as unpleasant.

I don't agree, a 377 would have had the momentum to coast over the dead section, as the 460 ahead of us indeed managed to do (so I was told the following day by the staff who despatched us from Gatwick. )

 

[Dart34518]

Hate to say it but there's not really anywhere the 442's can fit on on 3rd rail land anymore.

Fin wash your mouth out!!

 

[Townsend Hook]

Apparently yesterday (26/02) 442409 moved from Stewart's Lane to Streatham Hill for storage, the first to be removed from traffic? I understand this particular unit is non-standard being uniquely fitted with electrically operated camshaft control. It's a shame to see the inevitable happening, but then again, they've already survived one withdrawal.

 

[antharro]

I suspect they're being withdrawn in order of maintenance required, but I do wonder if 2416 will go early, as it's also non-standard; the A/C takes its power directly from the juice rail, if I remember correctly.

 

[185143]

How long have I got?

I have to confess it looks likely my first 442 trip will be with TPE on the WCML/London Midland additional stock for TV stopper/Football specials/insert whatever stupid suggestion!

 

[trainmania100]

How long have I got?

I have to confess it looks likely my first 442 trip will be with TPE on the WCML/London Midland additional stock for TV stopper/Football specials/insert whatever stupid suggestion!

442s should still be running the GX services between London and Brighton through today

 

[route:oxford]

How long have I got?

I have to confess it looks likely my first 442 trip will be with TPE on the WCML/London Midland additional stock for TV stopper/Football specials/insert whatever stupid suggestion!

No, I think it'll be on a Manchester-Southampton Class 67 (or 68) loco-hauled service following a light overhaul.

Immediately improving the service to a permanent 5 car unit + loco with more luggage space for people travelling to Manchester or Southampton Airport, or to Heathrow via Reading's Rail-Air link.

This would then allow other XC Voyagers to go through a refresh process and strengthening of other diagrams.

Just long enough in service to cover the full electrification of the route between Southampton on Manchester and procurement of suitable EMUs

 

[RichmondCommu]

Could they perhaps be used on Motor Rail services between Twickenham and Dumfries?

 

[Minilad]

I still need 8,15 and 17. Better get them in the book sharpish

 

[Dart34518]

I still need 8,15 and 17. Better get them in the book sharpish

2408 is one of the units which southern will be holding on to until 2018.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If they were to go for scrapping after this time in storage, is there much they could salvage for any non class 442 units?

 

[CosherB]

Here we go again. :roll:

 

[pemma]

Just to be clear TPE have confirmed they are getting 44 brand new 5 car trains to operate alongside 29 x 185s. It also looks like the temporary 170 replacements for South TPE will be 2 x 185s off North West routes with Arriva needing to find stock to operate those two diagrams (the services are transferring from TPE to Northern.) Reworking the diagrams to put a 17th 319 in daily service and an additional mk2 set have been mooted as possible options for that. Therefore, very unlikely that we'll see 442s coming up here.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The only thing that will likely happen is that they get stripped of anything worth salvaging, then sent to the scrapyard

 

[randyrippley]

they'd be ideal for long distance 3rd rail routes like Waterloo-Weymouth

 

[D365]

they'd be ideal for long distance 3rd rail routes like Waterloo-Weymouth

You don't say...

 

[adrock1976]

they'd be ideal for long distance 3rd rail routes like Waterloo-Weymouth

I believe that is the route that they were originally designed for, to tie in with the extension of the 3rd rail to Weymouth in 1988.

 

[MatthewRead]

The class 442 units use to work the Waterloo-Weymouth services until 2007 and then they were replaced by class 444 units and therefore suffered terrible with a reduction in capacity it's a shame they couldn't get brand new express stock for the Weymouth line instead. I have read that the 442s will be kept for a weekday London bridge-Eastbourne and for some weekend Victoria-Brighton services until 2018 when their lease expires.

 

[ScotGG]

I know it's far from easy but it does seem crazy that a third rail train is being taken into storage when third rail areas next door at Southeastern badly need more stock. I'm not suggesting they go there by the way.

The ideas suggested for c2c equally apply - perhaps could've kept some 442s for a bit longer with Southern and a number of 377s/387s gone to SE for a short period - say 2 years - until longer term solutions to SEs stock shortages are found in late 2017/early 2018 if approved this summer.

 

[RobShipway]

Other than being loco hauled, I cannot see any use for the class 442's to be honest and since there are unis such as the class 142's that are only 3 years older than the 442's I do not see the point of them being kept other than 1 unit to go into the NRM collection.

Any of the SE services would need commuter style sliding doors as on the 376/376/377/387's so SE using then would be no good.

The only routes that the class 442's could be used is on XC routes, on routes on the GWML being loco hauled and possibly with an operator such as Hull Trains or Grand Central on short term lease.

 

[D365]

Other than being loco hauled, I cannot see any use for the class 442's to be honest and since there are unis such as the class 142's that are only 3 years older than the 442's I do not see the point of them being kept other than 1 unit to go into the NRM collection.

Why are you comparing to DMUs which have a nominally shorter lifespan?

The only routes that the class 442's could be used is on XC routes, on routes on the GWML being loco hauled and possibly with an operator such as Hull Trains or Grand Central on short term lease.

Say what?

 

[ScotGG]

Other than being loco hauled, I cannot see any use for the class 442's to be honest and since there are unis such as the class 142's that are only 3 years older than the 442's I do not see the point of them being kept other than 1 unit to go into the NRM collection.

Any of the SE services would need commuter style sliding doors as on the 376/376/377/387's so SE using then would be no good.

The only routes that the class 442's could be used is on XC routes, on routes on the GWML being loco hauled and possibly with an operator such as Hull Trains or Grand Central on short term lease.

Not talking about them going to SE but staying with Southern for a year or two longer, allowing short term moves of 377/387s to SE. The same idea raised in regards to c2c receiving more stock in the short term.

 

[swt_passenger]

The class 442 units use to work the Waterloo-Weymouth services until 2007 and then they were replaced by class 444 units and therefore suffered terrible with a reduction in capacity it's a shame they couldn't get brand new express stock for the Weymouth line instead.

Really? The 444's capacity (299S/35F)is almost identical to the 442 as it was when in service with SWT (290/50F).

I'd go further and say that the 444 was specifically designed to be the near equivalent train to a 442, give or take the space taken up by a universal toilet and additional wheelchair spaces. It has end doors, 23m vehicles and is generally considered 'express' stock rather than suburban.

I don't recall anyone actually complaining about the 444s causing a capacity problem on the Weymouth route, after all there are 45 of them that replaced only 24...

 

[NSEFAN]

I have seen the date of 11th April being mentioned for when actual storage begins. Units being moved to Streatham Hill are to free up space at Selhurst for 387/2s as they come into service. 442s will be kept available as hot spares should they be required. This is what I've seen posted elsewhere, so how true it is, I have no idea.

The smart thing would be to go phot/ride/spot the units whilst they're still going. You never realise what you have 'till it's gone!

Realistically the 442s will be scrapped once they've been raided for spares for the remaining units on Southern. All this talk of locohauling them seems to be coming from "what if" enthusiasts rather than any authoritative source. If they were to be redeployed it'd be onto the Waterloo - Weymouth route, since this is what they were built for, however SWT currently don't need them as they have additional Siemens units coming soon to solve their capacity problems.

 

[Emblematic]

South Western franchise ITT due shortly. Just saying.

 

[sarahj]

Well, if they go into store I hope Southern look after them better than SWT did. They took them off the last train and dumped them without a clean. Not only full of old newspapers, but very old coffee and takeaways. When we first got them they were rank!!!

 

[CosherB]

Really? The 444's capacity (299S/35F)is almost identical to the 442 as it was when in service with SWT (290/50F).

I'd go further and say that the 444 was specifically designed to be the near equivalent train to a 442, give or take the space taken up by a universal toilet and additional wheelchair spaces. It has end doors, 23m vehicles and is generally considered 'express' stock rather than suburban.

I don't recall anyone actually complaining about the 444s causing a capacity problem on the Weymouth route, after all there are 45 of them that replaced only 24...

Exactly!!!