Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[RichardKing]

How long have I got?

I have to confess it looks likely my first 442 trip will be with TPE on the WCML/London Midland additional stock for TV stopper/Football specials/insert whatever stupid suggestion!

A pair of 442s will continue to operate 1F82 Eastbourne-London Bridge and 1F83 London Bridge-Eastbourne until 2018. In addition, some weekend Brighton-Victoria (and vice versa) express services will continue to use 442s, although I'm not sure if this will be a common sight.
Your best bet is the aforementioned Eastbourne commuter services.

If anyone is looking to take some last photographs, you'll find a pair of 442s in Eastbourne Sidings every weekend.

I wonder what unit will be diagrammed for the summer specials between Eastbourne and Victoria (and vice versa) when the 442s have all gone. As it's non-stopping, these units are perfect for it! Also, what will Hove Yard be used for?

 

[Railengineer]

they'd be ideal for long distance 3rd rail routes like Waterloo-Weymouth

Heaven forbid!! Folks just admit it they are old technology 'heritage' units and it is time for the cutting torch. Keep one somewhere for fun if you must but lets now say goodbye to these heaps once and for all.

 

[dviner]

Heathrow via Reading's Rail-Air link.

Along the M4 on the back of a tractor-trailer rig?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Along the M4 on the back of a tractor-trailer rig?

Where do Class 37s come into it?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Heaven forbid!! Folks just admit it they are old technology 'heritage' units and it is time for the cutting torch. Keep one somewhere for fun if you must but lets now say goodbye to these heaps once and for all.

Considering PEP units are still running as are 455s, some of which are running with 4SUB gear (mainly Southern's), the 442 could still have been relevant and most certainly aren't heaps.

Had they still been with SWT, I could imagine that they would've been retractioned along with the 455s.

That said, there is nowhere for them to run, and the only routes they are suited for are on SWT who have 444s instead (they were never suited for GatEx). So sadly I agree that their next destination is probably Booth's.

 

[NSEFAN]

Where do Class 37s come into it?

They'll be joining them on another low-loader on their way to Booths.

 

[222ben]

They'll be joining them on another low-loader on their way to Booths.

I don't like your attitude to a valuable part of our rail units..

 

[455driver]

they'd be ideal for long distance 3rd rail routes like Waterloo-Weymouth

Yeah their non standard (for SWT) couplers and painfully slow acceleration makes them perfect for use on the South Western mainline! :roll:

Do we really have to go through all this AGAIN? :twisted

Edit-
Apparently we do! :roll:

 

[D365]

Do we really have to go through all this AGAIN?

This forum will do anything for the plastic piggies

 

[455driver]

This forum will do anything for the plastic piggies

Uhhhh, you are right of course!

 

[Phil.]

Considering PEP units are still running as are 455s, some of which are running with 4SUB gear (mainly Southern's), the 442 could still have been relevant and most certainly aren't heaps.

Had they still been with SWT, I could imagine that they would've been retractioned along with the 455s.

That said, there is nowhere for them to run, and the only routes they are suited for are on SWT who have 444s instead (they were never suited for GatEx). So sadly I agree that their next destination is probably Booth's.

There are no PEP units running. They were withdrawn from service before many on here were born. There are however lots of PEP derived units.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There are no PEP units running. They were withdrawn from service before many on here were born. There are however lots of PEP derived units.

People still refer to the derived stock as PEP's tho, and helps diffferentiate PEP family stock from Mk1 or Mk3 based EMU families just as the railway still refer to the HST's as class 253 or 254 today

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The only thing that will likely happen is that they get stripped of anything worth salvaging, then sent to the scrapyard

Where are the "inspired" thoughts of the Blessed Adrian Shooter on how Vivarail will transform these units when they bid for them, as Vivarail must surely have divested themselves in terms of hard and fast sales/lease orders for their Class 230 units being refurbished by now and will need more work for their 21st century "new lamps from old" project base....

 

[gimmea50anyday]

That ^ is probably not a bad idea actually.....

Oh, better grab my crash helmet.....

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Where are the "inspired" thoughts of the Blessed Adrian Shooter on how Vivarail will transform these units when they bid for them, as Vivarail must surely have divested themselves in terms of hard and fast sales/lease orders for their Class 230 units being refurbished by now and will need more work for their 21st century "new lamps from old" project base....

Given a 230 return...? By Jove, I think you have it

 

[Class 170101]

Heaven forbid!! Folks just admit it they are old technology 'heritage' units and it is time for the cutting torch. Keep one somewhere for fun if you must but lets now say goodbye to these heaps once and for all.

At this time we cannot be fussy as to what trains we have. The railway is growing and needs to keep growing to cope with demand.

Therefore if the 442s do return to the southwest and are capable of doing so then so be it, especially if the 444s are needed elsewhere. The same with Pacers, would you rather stand (or perhaps not get on the train) or have a Pacer or 442?

As far as SWT goes I doubt even the 707s will be enough.

 

[D365]

As far as SWT goes I doubt even the 707s will be enough.

There are options on the contract with Siemens for the supply of further carriages.

 

[kevinwaltets]

If the class 73's can be rebuilt so can the 442's. Never say never but time will tell.

 

[swt_passenger]

Therefore if the 442s do return to the southwest and are capable of doing so then so be it, especially if the 444s are needed elsewhere.

Why are the 444s 'needed elsewhere', as you suggest?

 

[XCTurbostar]

Class 442s will never die on this forum!!
Thanks,
Ross

 

[222ben]

The only thing that will likely happen is that they get stripped of anything worth salvaging, then sent to the scrapyard

Or strip them down and build "new stock" out of 442s southern region style!

 

[antharro]

Why are the 444s 'needed elsewhere', as you suggest?

I think the Portsmouth lot would like their 444s back, they were pretty annoyed when they lost them! It would do SWT's reputation good to put them back, imo, as it did cause quite a fuss when they were replaced by 450s. And as a regular Weymouth line user, I'd quite like the 442s back, but only on fasts, their acceleration is too darn slow for slow/stopping services!

 

[Class 170101]

Why are the 444s 'needed elsewhere', as you suggest?

Elsewhere within SWT land!

 

[swt_passenger]

I think the Portsmouth lot would like their 444s back, they were pretty annoyed when they lost them! It would do SWT's reputation good to put them back, imo, as it did cause quite a fuss when they were replaced by 450s. And as a regular Weymouth line user, I'd quite like the 442s back, but only on fasts, their acceleration is too darn slow for slow/stopping services!

But as discussed many times, they are required to use 12.450s on the Portsmouth line to provide the number of seats per hour the DfT require in the 2007 franchise spec.

If SWT had the 442s as well as the existing fleet, they still wouldn't necessarily be put back on the Portsmouth line because they would reduce the overall seating capacity, unless more paths were found from somewhere.

 

[Class 170101]

I think the Portsmouth lot would like their 444s back, they were pretty annoyed when they lost them! It would do SWT's reputation good to put them back, imo, as it did cause quite a fuss when they were replaced by 450s. And as a regular Weymouth line user, I'd quite like the 442s back, but only on fasts, their acceleration is too darn slow for slow/stopping services!

I concur with this statement, also are there any trains not formed of maximum length that need to / could be?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are options on the contract with Siemens for the supply of further carriages.

How many carriages and will they still be enough?

 

[antharro]

But as discussed many times, they are required to use 12.450s on the Portsmouth line to provide the number of seats per hour the DfT require in the 2007 franchise spec.

Yeah, I was aware of that at the time from one of their Meet the Manager sessions. However I had thought the rather narrow minded approach of looking at capacity in terms of number of seats provided had been "relaxed" somewhat, although I have no official source for this.

Were 450 HC ever used on Portsmouth services?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I concur with this statement, also are there any trains not formed of maximum length that need to / could be?

I suspect, tho I don't have any hard facts to back this up, that if 442s came back on Weymouths, (some) 444s would go to Portsmouths, therefore freeing up 450s, which could be used to lengthen other 450 services.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah, I was aware of that at the time from one of their Meet the Manager sessions. However I had thought the rather narrow minded approach of looking at capacity in terms of number of seats provided had been "relaxed" somewhat, although I have no official source for this.

On routes where the first stop is more than 20 mins from the terminus, the capacity is still based on seats only.

The approach of replacing 2+3 seats with 2+2 and adding loads of standing room (like on 458/5s and 450 HCs) isn't really applicable to SWT's longer distance services - unless at some stage they make them stop at more stations nearer London.

The Wessex route study still recommends more 12 car 450s should run in the peaks, and also recommends (rather surprisingly) that 2+3 seating in 444s and 159s should be looked at. You'd think it impossible in narrower 23m vehicles like those, but there you are, that's what it says..

The current CWNs suggest all trains leaving PortsmouthHarbour for London in the morning peaks are at full length, either 10.444 or 12.450 already. In the absence of spare paths there is nothing more to be done.

 

[Class 170101]

On routes where the first stop is more than 20 mins from the terminus, the capacity is still based on seats only.

The approach of replacing 2+3 seats with 2+2 and adding loads of standing room (like on 458/5s and 450 HCs) isn't really applicable to SWT's longer distance services - unless at some stage they make them stop at more stations nearer London.

The Wessex route study still recommends more 12 car 450s should run in the peaks, and also recommends (rather surprisingly) that 2+3 seating in 444s and 159s should be looked at. You'd think it impossible in narrower 23m vehicles like those, but there you are, that's what it says..

The current CWNs suggest all trains leaving PortsmouthHarbour for London in the morning peaks are at full length, either 10.444 or 12.450 already. In the absence of spare paths there is nothing more to be done.

Would more paths be available once SWT take over the International Platforms at Waterloo plus (and if built according to NR SWML RUS) Woking and Basingstoke flyovers?

 

[Railengineer]

Yeah their non standard (for SWT) couplers and painfully slow acceleration makes them perfect for use on the South Western mainline! :roll:

Do we really have to go through all this AGAIN? :twisted

Edit-
Apparently we do! :roll:

Don't forget expensive and frequent maintenance , clapped out very inefficient motors, clunky camshafts, antique braking system and unreliable doors! Still if they kept them in service somewhere they could have a separate forum section just for the deluded to post daft comments about them.

 

[D365]

Still if they kept them in service somewhere they could have a separate forum section just for the deluded to post daft comments about them.

Knowing our community, I won't be surprised to see the daftness continue long after they'll be scrapped.