Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[swt_passenger]

I'm sure someone will dig it out, but you might be right. Thought there was supposed to be some sort of real time pis screens.

Here you are, from the franchise agreement, a couple of years before it’s required:

90.3 By no later than the Passenger Change Date occurring in December 2020, the Franchisee shall procure that all rolling stock vehicles comprised in the Train Fleet (except for the rolling stock vehicles which are used to deliver the Island Line Services) are fitted with commissioned and operational passenger information screens, being electronic screens which are capable of communicating information from the Customer Information System in real time.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...rn-railways-2017-rail-franchise-agreement.pdf

 

[theironroad]

Here you are, from the franchise agreement, a couple of years before it’s required:

I knew it was around somewhere. Thanks.

 

[MatthewRead]

I was told at work by a colleague that the 442's are to be commissioned on the Windsor line does anyone know anything about this?

 

[Bigfoot]

I was told at work by a colleague that the 442's are to be commissioned on the Windsor line does anyone know anything about this?

I'd suggest they or you misheard and that they meant Weymouth...

 

[moley]

I'd suggest they or you misheard and that they meant Weymouth...

Not necessarily, they could also mean that they are to be cleared between Waterloo, Clapham Junction and Byfleet & Newhaw via Staines (i.e. the Windsor Lines).

 

[swt_passenger]

Not necessarily, they could also mean that they are to be cleared between Waterloo, Clapham Junction and Byfleet & Newhaw via Staines (i.e. the Windsor Lines).

They’re already cleared according to the online (public) sectional appendix. Might just need revalidating, I think someone said earlier in the thread it was done for all the other routes they’d used before.

 

[theironroad]

Not necessarily, they could also mean that they are to be cleared between Waterloo, Clapham Junction and Byfleet & Newhaw via Staines (i.e. the Windsor Lines).

I'd imagine this is the case for diversionary route clearance. I'd also imagine they will get cleared for the four from Guildford to Surbiton via Cobham as it's also a diversionary route.

Nil chance of 442 going to Windsor and eton station in service or very unlikely event that stop at Cobham.

 

[theironroad]

They’re already cleared according to the online (public) sectional appendix. Might just need revalidating, I think someone said earlier in the thread it was done for all the other routes they’d used before.

Correct. The previous incarnation is basically void. All routes are being done for route clearance as at some places I believe station works etc have made the 442s out of gauge.

 

[strimmer]

2414 and 2404 at Southampton today with 5Q30 10:25 Fratton-Bournemouth on crew training run.

 

[pigs bay]

How many others are now in full SWR livery. I know 2408 is minus the yellow stripe on the bottom, but what about the others?

 

[mullac30]

Just curious: why people don't list the full tops number?

 

[K.o.R]

Just curious: why people don't list the full tops number?

A quirk of the SR unit numbering system.

I do hope they get new headlamp clusters fitted, those weedy little markers look so out of place now.

On another note, are these the last EMUs in normal service to be made of actual discrete coaches? All other units I can see have inter-car gangways that span the whole gap as one piece, whereas the 442s are clearly separate coaches coupled together.

 

[Bikeman78]

Just curious: why people don't list the full tops number?

For the first 20 years they only carried four digit numbers. Same with the 455s, the Southern ones now carry the full six digit numbers but in the '80s and '90s they had four digit numbers displayed,

 

[pigs bay]

in reply to previous thread, when the 442's were built by NSE for the Weymouth electrification extension they were tops numbered 24xx alongside their respective coach numbers on their driving coaches eg 2401 77382 was on the sides of the DTC which became a DTF

 

[theironroad]

All seems to have gone quiet.....

Are any of the 442s going to be in service next week when the new timetable starts on Sunday?

 

[TEW]

No, as far as I'm aware no guards training has started yet.

 

[theironroad]

No, as far as I'm aware no guards training has started yet.

Oh dear, not a good sign then. Guess maybe next year at some point.

Do you think they'll introduce the first ten-car as soon as it and the guards are ready or wait until they have a few?

 

[Class172]

On another note, are these the last EMUs in normal service to be made of actual discrete coaches? All other units I can see have inter-car gangways that span the whole gap as one piece, whereas the 442s are clearly separate coaches coupled together.

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but train-width ganways are more the exception than the norm, since they have only started appearing with the introduction of classes during the past decade (ie Desiro City and Aventra designs). Most other EMU stock still has conventional ganways like the 442s.

 

[Nammer]

All seems to have gone quiet.....

Are any of the 442s going to be in service next week when the new timetable starts on Sunday?

The Carriage Working Notices at work show what services they SHOULD be allocated to from Sunday. But the Altered Carriage Workings show them as not running and being replaced by 12-450 or 10-444 stock. Rumour is that they won’t be out in service til February 2019

 

[theironroad]

The Carriage Working Notices at work show what services they SHOULD be allocated to from Sunday. But the Altered Carriage Workings show them as not running and being replaced by 12-450 or 10-444 stock. Rumour is that they won’t be out in service til February 2019

Oh, that's not so good. I've sort of lost track of the pledges of what should be ready and when but I suppose deferring the timetable and the 4tph on the Pompey direct gives them a bit of leeway.

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but train-width ganways are more the exception than the norm, since they have only started appearing with the introduction of classes during the past decade (ie Desiro City and Aventra designs). Most other EMU stock still has conventional ganways like the 442s.

You’ve misunderstood, I think. What was being suggested was that on a 442, if you uncouple a pair of coaches, then half of the gangway ‘bellows’ remains on each coach, just like on an uncoupled loco hauled coach. On newer stock, the intermediate gangway is usually more of a one piece device but bolted to both coaches, if you separate the coaches the whole gangway has to be separated from at least one coach.

In other words, this is looking at the ‘length’ of the device along the train, not the ‘width’.

 

[TEW]

Oh dear, not a good sign then. Guess maybe next year at some point.

Do you think they'll introduce the first ten-car as soon as it and the guards are ready or wait until they have a few?

Who knows! The plan seems to change every week.

 

[spark001uk]

Oh, that's not so good. I've sort of lost track of the pledges of what should be ready and when but I suppose deferring the timetable and the 4tph on the Pompey direct gives them a bit of leeway.

Indeed, they've not exactly been super fast at putting anything into action so far have they.

 

[Class172]

You’ve misunderstood, I think. What was being suggested was that on a 442, if you uncouple a pair of coaches, then half of the gangway ‘bellows’ remains on each coach, just like on an uncoupled loco hauled coach. On newer stock, the intermediate gangway is usually more of a one piece device but bolted to both coaches, if you separate the coaches the whole gangway has to be separated from at least one coach.

In other words, this is looking at the ‘length’ of the device along the train, not the ‘width’.

I see what you mean, that makes more sense now, thanks. I hadn’t appreciated the 442s had this distinction.

 

[43096]

The Carriage Working Notices at work show what services they SHOULD be allocated to from Sunday. But the Altered Carriage Workings show them as not running and being replaced by 12-450 or 10-444 stock. Rumour is that they won’t be out in service til February 2019

Yet another missed franchise commitment from SWR.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see what you mean, that makes more sense now, thanks. I hadn’t appreciated the 442s had this distinction.

A 442 coach is basically a Mk3 LHCS vehicle with some extra gubbins, so things like that are as per Mk3.

 

[TEW]

Yet another missed franchise commitment from SWR.

Weren't they meant to have them all in use by December 2018? To have none is quite something.

 

[HaggisBotherer]

For the first 20 years they only carried four digit numbers. Same with the 455s, the Southern ones now carry the full six digit numbers but in the '80s and '90s they had four digit numbers displayed,

The Southern Railway/Region had a long history of four digit numbers for multiple units and the sheer number of SR MUs meant it chose not to change every unit number when TOPS came along.

Thus the original numbering system continued until the 4CEPs were refurbished. They were then renumbered with the TOPS prefix, but in a number series that would not clash with the four digit numbers carried by other SR MUs - hence the numbering of the refurbished units started with 411501, not 411001, because the four-figure version of that would have clashed with the number of 6S Hastings unit 1001.

Early renumbered 4CEPs and BEPs did carry the full six digit TOPS number on the ends for a while. However the Southern was so attached to four digit numbering (plus there was very little room between the end gangway and the side of the vehicle, above the cab windows, which is where unit numbers were displayed, making them hard to read from any distance) that pretty quickly the first two digits were dropped.

The likes of the 455s and 5WES carried the four digit versions of TOPS unit numbers from new. Then BR was privatised and such quirks as the SR's attachments to four digit numbers gradually vanished.

(Interestingly, the 508s always carried full six digit numbers, but this could be because they had a bigger space on the front for the unit number or because they were always regarded as a stopgap)

 

[Goldfish62]

The Southern Railway/Region had a long history of four digit numbers for multiple units and the sheer number of SR MUs meant it chose not to change every unit number when TOPS came along.

Thus the original numbering system continued until the 4CEPs were refurbished. They were then renumbered with the TOPS prefix, but in a number series that would not clash with the four digit numbers carried by other SR MUs - hence the numbering of the refurbished units started with 411501, not 411001, because the four-figure version of that would have clashed with the number of 6S Hastings unit 1001.

Early renumbered 4CEPs and BEPs did carry the full six digit TOPS number on the ends for a while. However the Southern was so attached to four digit numbering (plus there was very little room between the end gangway and the side of the vehicle, above the cab windows, which is where unit numbers were displayed, making them hard to read from any distance) that pretty quickly the first two digits were dropped.

The likes of the 455s and 5WES carried the four digit versions of TOPS unit numbers from new. Then BR was privatised and such quirks as the SR's attachments to four digit numbers gradually vanished.

(Interestingly, the 508s always carried full six digit numbers, but this could be because they had a bigger space on the front for the unit number or because they were always regarded as a stopgap)

The Class 458s were the last units to use four digit numbers, changing to standard numbering upon lengthening to five cars.

 

[43096]

The Class 458s were the last units to use four digit numbers, changing to standard numbering upon lengthening to five cars.

The SWR 455s still have them, do they not?