Class 442s

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TEW

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Most the Brighton Express services are booked 377s. Off peak 442s M-F are:
1A68 0906 VIC-BTN 10-Car
1A85 1019 BTN-VIC 10-Car
1A88 1136 VIC-BTN 10-Car
1A05 1249 BTN-VIC 5-Car
1A08 1406 VIC-BTN 5-Car
1A25 1519 BTN-VIC 5-Car

Most peak time London Victoria-Brighton services are booked 442s, they are the services advertised as Gatwick Express service to Brighton. In addition to the Victoria services the following services are booked 10-Car 442s:
1F82 0714 EBN-LBG
1F83 1823 LBG-EBN
1B12 0732 BTN-LBG
1B27 1757 LBG-BTN
 

Southern

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A few more run in the evening as well:

2006/2236 - 5 442
2036/2106/2136/2306 - 10 442

Returns listed below are booked for either single or double sets so after coming down from Victoria, you could ride back up on another set/s.

1924/1954/2024/2054/2154/2224/2254 from East Croydon - Victoria.
 

Simon Poole

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Thanks, i went to London Victoria the 1306 was an Class 377 so travelled on the 1251 fast to East Croydon, oncce arrived there the 1323 to London Victoria was an Class 442 (442412) and rode on it to Clapham Junction :)
 

SprinterMan

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It is ironic that the GX units operate so many services that stop at Gatwick. Is there any reason for them not stopping at Gatwick? Are they trying to encourage more people to use the Gatwick Express, so stopping GX units at Gatwick on non-GX services defeats the object, or is it more a capacity thing.

I'm still trying to work out why SO got rid of the 460s, because the doors on a 442 are useless of you have a big suitcase, 460s are DDA compliant and 442s aren't, and if they kept the 460s and took all the 442s as well, the would have needed less 313s.

Adam :D
 

tsr

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It is ironic that the GX units operate so many services that stop at Gatwick. Is there any reason for them not stopping at Gatwick? Are they trying to encourage more people to use the Gatwick Express, so stopping GX units at Gatwick on non-GX services defeats the object, or is it more a capacity thing.

I'm still trying to work out why SO got rid of the 460s, because the doors on a 442 are useless of you have a big suitcase, 460s are DDA compliant and 442s aren't, and if they kept the 460s and took all the 442s as well, the would have needed less 313s.

Adam :D

The 442s have had some aspects of disability access improved (not very well, it seems) but on other fronts they are, in my opinion, far inferior in many ways to 377s and definitely 460s (or indeed 458/5s, as they will become) for the type of workings they're used for, and therefore I agree that I don't know why they are used.
 

SprinterMan

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The 442s have had some aspects of disability access improved (not very well, it seems) but on other fronts they are, in my opinion, far inferior in many ways to 377s and definitely 460s (or indeed 458/5s, as they will become) for the type of workings they're used for, and therefore I agree that I don't know why they are used.

Where can you even get a wheelchair on a 442?
 

ushawk

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It is ironic that the GX units operate so many services that stop at Gatwick. Is there any reason for them not stopping at Gatwick? Are they trying to encourage more people to use the Gatwick Express, so stopping GX units at Gatwick on non-GX services defeats the object, or is it more a capacity thing.

I'm still trying to work out why SO got rid of the 460s, because the doors on a 442 are useless of you have a big suitcase, 460s are DDA compliant and 442s aren't, and if they kept the 460s and took all the 442s as well, the would have needed less 313s.

Adam :D

Its simply because they run the Brighton Express services which rarely stop at Gatwick - can be worked by 377s at times as well. 442s in my opinion are more suited to the Express services.

Where can you even get a wheelchair on a 442?

Theres a small area in one of the coaches i think, compared to a 460 - disability access is poor.

442s are good for Express services, but not the GatEx. Would have thought that some refurbished 377s (maybe after Southern get the /5s from FCC) would be better on the GatEx, with 442s specifically allocated to the Brighton Express.
 

SprinterMan

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Its simply because they run the Brighton Express services which rarely stop at Gatwick - can be worked by 377s at times as well. 442s in my opinion are more suited to the Express services.

Until recently I was under the impression that all trains that passed through Gatwick stopped there, like at East Croydon (excl. GX). I was surprised to find out why more trains don't stop there.

Theres a small area in one of the coaches i think, compared to a 460 - disability access is poor.

442s are good for Express services, but not the GatEx. Would have thought that some refurbished 377s (maybe after Southern get the /5s from FCC) would be better on the GatEx, with 442s specifically allocated to the Brighton Express.

None of the doors seem to wide enough for a wheelchair, how would you even get one on there?
 

TomJ93

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Are any 442s doable on a London travel card zones 1-6. How about on a sunday?
 

tsr

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Are any 442s doable on a London travel card zones 1-6. How about on a sunday?

A Travelcard should be valid if you are travelling between East Croydon and a London terminal, yes, even if it happens to be advertised as GatEx. I don't know which workings they are on - sorry.
 

Drsatan

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A Travelcard should be valid if you are travelling between East Croydon and a London terminal, yes, even if it happens to be advertised as GatEx. I don't know which workings they are on - sorry.


If you look at the London-Brighton timetable here all services with a black square above them in the timetable are services diagrammed for 442s.

The timetable says there's only one service on Sundays booked for a 442 to answer your question.
 

387star

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class 442s have a guards van for wheelchairs I think. The upholstery in the drivers cab is still SWT. Class 319s still have NSE upholstery in the drivers cab
 

Southern

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Are any 442s doable on a London travel card zones 1-6. How about on a sunday?

0902 Victoria - Brighton would be the only one at the moment on a Sunday. From the 20th, this could change as Southern introduce an amended and enhanced mainline service for the summer.
 

TEW

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If you look at the London-Brighton timetable here all services with a black square above them in the timetable are services diagrammed for 442s.

The timetable says there's only one service on Sundays booked for a 442 to answer your question.

As mentioned above, the timetable does not indicate which services are booked for 442s very well at all. The 442s out between the peaks for example are only these:
1A68 0906 VIC-BTN 10-Car
1A85 1019 BTN-VIC 10-Car
1A88 1136 VIC-BTN 10-Car
1A05 1249 BTN-VIC 5-Car
1A08 1406 VIC-BTN 5-Car
1A25 1519 BTN-VIC 5-Car

There did used to be more 442s out, but as people have mentioned they aren't really suited to Southern services. Even the Brighton Express services aren't that suitable, 442s take ages to load and unload at East Croydon and Clapham Junction. 377s need much less time at stations. At least with the Gatwick Express services there are no intermediate stops.
 

387star

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Yeah and AFAIK the platform edge gap at East Croydon when alighting from these units is big!
 

SprinterMan

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442s seem to get a lot of love on here, but more recently people are seeing them as outdated and not really suitable for much anymore. Times are changing it seems..... :P
 

TEW

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Yeah and AFAIK the platform edge gap at East Croydon when alighting from these units is big!

Same at Clapham Junction. Both stations are of course on curves.
 

Robbies

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442s seem to get a lot of love on here, but more recently people are seeing them as outdated and not really suitable for much anymore. Times are changing it seems..... :P

I used to use class 442's regularly when I lived down in Bournemouth during the early 1990's and the trains took a while to both unload if there was a lot of people getting off and then load back up again because of the doors at each end of the carriage. That having been said they are a good comfortable train.

They are not really suited as a commuter train, they are better suited to the routes down to Weymouth/Bournemouth which is what they were originally designed for in the firdt place. Unfortunately, the chassis of the trains I believe are based on old MK1 chassis equipment so would need updating if possible if they could be converted in some to work as OHLE trains which I cannot see happeing, as I think they would work great doing Express trains either along the GWML when it has OHLE or working express services out of either Liverpool Street, Euston or Kings Cross.
 

starrymarkb

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They are not really suited as a commuter train, they are better suited to the routes down to Weymouth/Bournemouth which is what they were originally designed for in the firdt place. Unfortunately, the chassis of the trains I believe are based on old MK1 chassis equipment so would need updating if possible if they could be converted in some to work as OHLE trains which I cannot see happeing, as I think they would work great doing Express trains either along the GWML when it has OHLE or working express services out of either Liverpool Street, Euston or Kings Cross.

The traction equipment was lifted straight from the 4-REP units, and mounted on a IE Generator Van shell. which is why no 4-REPs were preserved
 

SprinterMan

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class 442s have a guards van for wheelchairs I think. The upholstery in the drivers cab is still SWT. Class 319s still have NSE upholstery in the drivers cab

Is the Guard's van area the slam-door in the middle of the motor coach? If so that still doesn't look enormous. On my 1st trip on a 442, the thing that struck me was how small the doors were. Until I saw one, I always thought they had MK.4 style doors.

Adam :)
 

Fincra5

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Is the Guard's van area the slam-door in the middle of the motor coach? If so that still doesn't look enormous. On my 1st trip on a 442, the thing that struck me was how small the doors were. Until I saw one, I always thought they had MK.4 style doors.

Adam :)

Nothing goes in the Guards Van bar us Guards. Wheelchairs have an area in on either Coach 2 or 4 of each unit (depending on direction of travel). Any wheelchair bigger than standard is next to impossible to get on.
 

SprinterMan

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Nothing goes in the Guards Van bar us Guards. Wheelchairs have an area in on either Coach 2 or 4 of each unit (depending on direction of travel). Any wheelchair bigger than standard is next to impossible to get on.

That does not surprise me, they look like slam doors attached to revolving poles.
 

HSTEd

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The traction equipment was lifted straight from the 4-REP units, and mounted on a IE Generator Van shell. which is why no 4-REPs were preserved

The glorious frugality of the Southern Region knows no bounds.

My father tells stories about an engineer who went around the Eastern Region, and I believe other regions too, scrapline facility picking the best of the Mark 1s to be incorporated into the second batch of 4REP units.

It is pretty much the absolute opposite of the modern railway culture of gold plating everything.

As for them getting too old, they probably have another decade left surely?
How about, when two of them are scrapped they could donate the traction equipment back to one of the 4REP sets which are currently lying around without running gear (I believe there are two motorcoaches or is it only one?)
 

455driver

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My father tells stories about an engineer who went around the Eastern Region, and I believe other regions too, scrapline facility picking the best of the Mark 1s to be incorporated into the second batch of 4REP units.

The mark 1 coaches converted into the REPs were only a few years old, hardly "scrapline" residents.
 

HSTEd

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The mark 1 coaches converted into the REPs were only a few years old, hardly "scrapline" residents.

Perhaps he was exaggerating, but they did seem to never throw anything away if they could squeeze a few more years life out of it.
Hence pre-war underframed rolling stock still in service going into the 1990s.
 
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