Class 458/5

[TEW]

One just turned up at Surbiton on the 2F84 / Woking to Waterloo. First 458 I've ever seen stop here.

That service has been booked for a 10-car 458 since December, the 2153 London Waterloo-Alton is also a 10-car 458 calling at Surbiton.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Perhaps this ECS from Bournemouth Depot to Wimbledon?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W96340/2016/05/23/advanced

I think so; it seems to match and I note it appears to have waited at Basingstoke for 10 minutes - it was just west of the station on the up side when the 15.21 went past it right in the middle of that 10 minute wait; that is clearly consistent with it being looped.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I caught the 1843 from Waterloo to Shp on Monday, getting on at Vauxhall and it was rammed being only 5 carriages. If I had known, I would of caught the other one a few mins earlier that goes via Kingston. (I thought that the display board at Vauxhall, did show it as 8 coaches, I must have misread it.)

 

[southern442]

I caught the 1843 from Waterloo to Shp on Monday, getting on at Vauxhall and it was rammed being only 5 carriages. If I had known, I would of caught the other one a few mins earlier that goes via Kingston. (I thought that the display board at Vauxhall, did show it as 8 coaches, I must have misread it.)

I don't think you did misread it, they do get it wrong sometimes, and nowadays very rarely show short formed trains.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

The 16:58 from Waterloo to Windsow service seems to be back to 10 car now. On Monday it was listed in formation updates as reduced from 10 to 5 and yesterday it was a full 10 coaches.

Strange that it seems to have been 5 from the new timetable until this week.

 

[87electric]

Reports of 458501 in service now.

 

[WWTownEnth]

458501 Returned to service 02/06/16
458502 In service
458503 In service
458504 In service
458505 In service 21/04/15
458506 In service 04/01/16
458507 In service 24/03/16
458508 In service 02/11/15
458509 In service 29/08/15
458510 In service 28/04/15
458511 In service 04/05/15
458812 In service 14/12/15
458513 In service 14/12/15
458514 In service 04/01/16
458515 In service 14/12/15
458516 In service 10/05/16
458517 In service 10/02/16
458518 Returned to service 12/01/16
458519 In service 14/09/15
458520 In service
458521 In service 19/03/16
458522 In service 02/11/15
458523 In service 10/12/15
458524 In service 26/05/15
458525 In service 09/06/15
458526 In service 29/08/15
458527 In service 20/07/15
458528 In service 14/02/16
458529 In service 28/09/15
458530 In service
458531 In service
458532 In service
458533 In service
458534 In service
458535 In service
458536 In service

In summary:

36 458/5s in service

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Seemed like an eternity the time it took to convert them all, looking at when this thread was started - April 2013. Is the time taken about average considering the work that was done?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Seemed like an eternity the time it took to convert them all, looking at when this thread was started - April 2013. Is the time taken about average considering the work that was done?

How long have similar conversions taken in the past? The things to compare would be the likes of 155 conversion to 153s, or re-engine process of class 30->31.

 

[swt_passenger]

How long have similar conversions taken in the past?

I can't think of anything easily comparable in terms of unit conversions. The 12 ex 460 driving vehicles had completely new front ends for a start, and four of them had to have new window openings cut and two sets of doors fitted.

I think relatively speaking they had a lot more done than the 153s.

 

[D365]

Time now for Wimbledon to get on top of reliability before DfT come up with another innovative new scheme to turn them into 458/6s...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I can't think of anything easily comparable in terms of unit conversions. The 12 ex 460 driving vehicles had completely new front ends for a start, and four of them had to have new window openings cut and two sets of doors fitted.

I think relatively speaking they had a lot more done than the 153s.

Indeed I'd meant to add a caveat that the conversions I'd mentioned were considerably less complex than the 458s! Still probably the closest there's been though...

 

[jopsuk]

Time now for Wimbledon to get on top of reliability before DfT come up with another innovative new scheme to turn them into 458/6s...

interior refresh when they get 1st class reinstated for their eventual home on the Reading service when the Class 707 are introduced?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are the roofs of the ex 460s part of the same moulding/casting as the body sides or are they separate (and welded in place)? (Just wondering if it's physically possible to retrofit them for overhead even though they would never have it done)

 

[RobShipway]

Are the roofs of the ex 460s part of the same moulding/casting as the body sides or are they separate (and welded in place)? (Just wondering if it's physically possible to retrofit them for overhead even though they would never have it done)

If you look at https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Class_458534_Blue_at_Clapham.JPG, it looks to me as if the body sides and the roof are part of the same casting.

 

[swt_passenger]

If you look at https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Class_458534_Blue_at_Clapham.JPG, it looks to me as if the body sides and the roof are part of the same casting.

No-one produces train bodies by casting, except the likes of Hornby...

A modern carriage body will start off as four main assemblies, with two ends added later. How the sides, roof and floor are welded together to form a 'squared tube', and the welding technology used, are matters of detail.

 

[D365]

(Just wondering if it's physically possible to retrofit them for overhead even though they would never have it done)

No, it's not (physically or mechanically) possible. As has been discussed on a multitude of occasions.

 

[asylumxl]

No, it's not (physically or mechanically) possible. As has been discussed on a multitude of occasions.

While I'm total agreement, it got me wondering how similar the 334 and 458 shells are, both being member of the UK Juniper family.

I know it'd probably never happen as it is most probably prohibitively expensive and complicated, but it'd sure be interesting to see them reformed in to one dual voltage class...

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone from SWT have insider knowledge of exactly how the damaged floor on 458501 was eventually repaired?

After all the earlier discussion it would be a pity if no details ever got out...

 

[RichardW]

Does anyone from SWT have insider knowledge of exactly how the damaged floor on 458501 was eventually repaired?

After all the earlier discussion it would be a pity if no details ever got out...

I am likely to meet someone who might know in a couple of weeks and will ask if he can answer that question. I am not from SWT though.

Richard

 

[swt_passenger]

I am likely to meet someone who might know in a couple of weeks and will ask if he can answer that question. I am not from SWT though.

Richard

Thanks for that offer.

 

[Bigfoot]

Looks like the fitment of wifi has begun. Noticed two units that have had roof mounted aerials fitted which look identical to the aerials fitted to the swt desiro fleet. Both units were coupled to unmodified units so could see to compare the roof furniture. Couldn't see anything obvious internally though.

 

[43096]

Looks like the fitment of wifi has begun. Noticed two units that have had roof mounted aerials fitted which look identical to the aerials fitted to the swt desiro fleet. Both units were coupled to unmodified units so could see to compare the roof furniture. Couldn't see anything obvious internally though.

Well over half the fleet has received the roof antennas.

 

[RichardW]

I am likely to meet someone who might know in a couple of weeks and will ask if he can answer that question. I am not from SWT though.

Richard

I finally had that meeting today and can therefore report that they had to cut out chunks of the various underframe bearers (which were badly damaged) and weld in completely new pieces. The floor then needed replacing. Due to the electrical damage (as during the flashover line voltage reached places it should not have reached) quite a bit of re-wiring was required as well.

The problem arose because the original Alstom instructions when converted to Wabtec work sheets were not sufficiently specific on the securing needed within the junction box - possibly related to work not being undertaken as it would have been historically by electrical staff in "Southern" workshops.

As a result of the meeting today I anticipate preparing a fuller article on the 458s for Live Rail - if you want to know more join the Southern Electric Group.

Richard

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for remembering to reply about this. Your description is very close to what I expected they would do, there were a few doubters earlier in the thread who thought it would be practically unrepairable...

The reasons behind the fault were thoroughly described in the RAIB report, and just as you summarise.

 

[RobShipway]

458507 was being used on a London Waterloo - Reading service last night.

 

[43096]

458507 was being used on a London Waterloo - Reading service last night.

Which service though? 1935 Waterloo-Reading is booked for a single 458.

 

[racklam]

Which service though? 1935 Waterloo-Reading is booked for a single 458.

I think I'm right in saying this is the only 458 scheduled to Reading for the moment. It runs back to Waterloo ECS.

Have the Reading line stations been entered into the PIS? Last time I caught this service the PIS was non-operational.

 

[43096]

I think I'm right in saying this is the only 458 scheduled to Reading for the moment. It runs back to Waterloo ECS.



Have the Reading line stations been entered into the PIS? Last time I caught this service the PIS was non-operational.

That's correct, it is the only 458 to Reading currently. Everything else is 450s.

Not sure on PIS as I've not been on that train for a while.

 

[RobShipway]

Which service though? 1935 Waterloo-Reading is booked for a single 458.

Yes, it was the 19:35 Waterloo service as it had got to Martins Heron at about 20:35 last night.

I saw 458507 again today, doing a Hounslow service on it's own about 3:50pm this afternoon.