Class 484 replacing class 483 on the island line: progress updates

Journeyman

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Over Christmas I read numerous website pages about the IOW railway. While a quick search now hasn't found it I saw a photo of a train with a gauging profile attached at a portal of one of the Ryde tunnels. This may have been for a previous idea. If so logic would say this should have been done again adjusted for planned track lowering and / or to determine the current limit and hence determine the adjustment required.
That was part of a mid-eighties plan to use class 503s retired from Merseyrail.
 
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RailUK Forums

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That was part of a mid-eighties plan to use class 503s retired from Merseyrail.

I did see the gaugeing photo on twitter.

Also remember this being on RM Web. It does talk about converting to single line back in 1983/84.

A 503 still exits and it is at Margate, Kent at present.
 

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Any more news on whether the new trains will actually fit or if the engineers are having to come up with a plan b?
 

pompeyfan

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There has been 2 class 20 locos shuttling between Fareham and Eastleigh the last couple of days, this is apparently in relation to mileage accumulations but I can’t see the connection unless the 484s will be running between Fareham and Eastleigh to get the miles up?
 

spark001uk

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There has been 2 class 20 locos shuttling between Fareham and Eastleigh the last couple of days, this is apparently in relation to mileage accumulations but I can’t see the connection unless the 484s will be running between Fareham and Eastleigh to get the miles up?
I've seen it said elsewhere that this is the case, the 20s will haul the 484s to Eastleigh, where they are to undergo mainline testing.
How they'll eventually travel to the Island I'm not sure. Presumably by road from Eastleigh, unless they can take the cars off the track anywhere closer, fratton perhaps? Not sure of the layout there since the refurb.
 

swt_passenger

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There has been 2 class 20 locos shuttling between Fareham and Eastleigh the last couple of days, this is apparently in relation to mileage accumulations but I can’t see the connection unless the 484s will be running between Fareham and Eastleigh to get the miles up?
Fareham to Eastleigh is almost an ideal length to simulate Island Line isn’t it, including regular change of direction. A few months back Modern Railways did predict a few 484s having mileage accumulation before going over to the island.
 

Wyrleybart

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There has been 2 class 20 locos shuttling between Fareham and Eastleigh the last couple of days, this is apparently in relation to mileage accumulations but I can’t see the connection unless the 484s will be running between Fareham and Eastleigh to get the miles up?

I have reads somewhere that the class 20s are performing route learning for the driver(s) who will then drive the 484 testing on the Eastleigh-Fareham route. Presume the 20s will eventually use the barrier wagons to haul the 484s to and from testing. Presume the 484s have retained the same (LT) couplers and can probably use the 100t tanks which delivered the Bombardier stock to Neasden.
 

tnxrail

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Just saw class 484 on the M42 in Birmingham heading in the north direction basically opposite to Isle of Wight not sure where it was going didn't get number or picture as was driving and caught me off guard.
 

Energy

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They will fit......
It suprises me that people think nobody would point out that they wouldn't fit if they didn't, the not fitting problem for rolling stock has been known about for a while, it isn't going to be overlooked...
 

D365

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It suprises me that people think nobody would point out that they wouldn't fit if they didn't, the not fitting problem for rolling stock has been known about for a while, it isn't going to be overlooked...
Exactly. Vivarail have been proposing D-Train for Island Line for several years now. It would be rather embarrassing on their part if the 484s suddenly did not fit.
 

david1212

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Exactly. Vivarail have been proposing D-Train for Island Line for several years now. It would be rather embarrassing on their part if the 484s suddenly did not fit.

A possible oversight would be Vivarail comparing the D-train to the steam-era stock together with no fully detailed record of the track bed now. With the LT stock being so much smaller there was no need to be very precise with either initial or subsequent changes.

There are a couple of photos of the 05 shunter at the Pier Head station on Flickr. When D2059 / 03059 was hired from the IoWSR it only worked as far as St Johns.
 

D365

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A possible oversight would be Vivarail comparing the D-train to the steam-era stock together with no fully detailed record of the track bed now. With the LT stock being so much smaller there was no need to be very precise with either initial or subsequent changes.

Possible. I spent some time at Long Marston before the Island Line proposal was public knowledge. They were more than confident that the D-Train would fit. So indeed it would be very embarrassing if this turned out to be false.
 

Bletchleyite

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Possible. I spent some time at Long Marston before the Island Line proposal was public knowledge. They were more than confident that the D-Train would fit. So indeed it would be very embarrassing if this turned out to be false.

Incredibly unlikely, though. While railways have made that sort of error before, e.g. the French EMUs that were too wide and clouted the platforms, in this case it's inconceivable that they wouldn't have done (or had Network Rail do) the necessary gauging work to properly check.
 

david1212

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Possible. I spent some time at Long Marston before the Island Line proposal was public knowledge. They were more than confident that the D-Train would fit. So indeed it would be very embarrassing if this turned out to be false.

Incredibly unlikely, though. While railways have made that sort of error before, e.g. the French EMUs that were too wide and clouted the platforms, in this case it's inconceivable that they wouldn't have done (or had Network Rail do) the necessary gauging work to properly check.

With modern modelling there really would be no excuse for Vivarail supplying incorrect dimensions including the maximum nominal body distance from the rail on a curve of a given radius and the worst case from suspension movement. Likewise with modern measurement methods accurately mapping the current gauging and calculating any changes required ought to be straightforward.

Time will tell if just a false rumour or additional work is required.
 

DavidGrain

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It has already been reported on this thread that the work has been done last year on the track bed where there were problems like under a bridge near Smallbrook Junction. The tunnel has also been 'gauged' some time ago, so I don't know why this has come back again on this thread.
 
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the sniper

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It surprises me that people think nobody would point out that they wouldn't fit if they didn't, the not fitting problem for rolling stock has been known about for a while, it isn't going to be overlooked...

But my god, it would be funny if they didn't fit, given how much it's been questioned and talked about over the years!
 

Mag_seven

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Any more news on whether the new trains will actually fit or if the engineers are having to come up with a plan b?

Who has said that they won't fit? I'm sure that all the necessary gauging work has been done and if any infringements have been found they will be being dealt with now during the line closure.
 

pdeaves

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Who has said that they won't fit? I'm sure that all the necessary gauging work has been done and if any infringements have been found they will be being dealt with now during the line closure.
I think the question may be rooted in a statement several weeks ago to the effect that some sort of 'surprise' has been found during the works. (I can't find it now specifically looking, don't recall the nature of the so-called surprise and know even less the extent of it).
 

RichT54

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I think the question may be rooted in a statement several weeks ago to the effect that some sort of 'surprise' has been found during the works. (I can't find it now specifically looking, don't recall the nature of the so-called surprise and know even less the extent of it).

It was in post #973 by @Chris125 which had the following link:
https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1348850200434135041

In which there was the following comment:
Hi, there were no initial plans to do this but after further investigation there may be a necessity to lower the track to give enough room for the new units to get through the tunnel.
 

pdeaves

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Thanks RichT54 and Lockwood, that's what I was thinking of. Any further development to answer Stroud Valleys' query? Probably nothing to worry about or we would have heard something else.
 

swt_passenger

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Just saw class 484 on the M42 in Birmingham heading in the north direction basically opposite to Isle of Wight not sure where it was going didn't get number or picture as was driving and caught me off guard.
A recent news article I saw quoting Adrian Shooter mentioned that some third rail testing was being done at Derby, presumably that would be the relatively short Bombardier test track?
 

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