Class 484 replacing class 483 on the island line: progress updates

[cav1975]

Presumably to test the 484s on Island Line before the coming winter's rebuilding/signalling alterations they will need to retain their train stops.

 

[dgl]

As I might have said before could they test them overnight out of Weymouth, the lines relatively quiet and Weymouth has sidings to accommodate them. Has history of testing trains before (including the recent 455 AC traction conversions) so testing them there should be a known commodity.

 

[Meerkat]

Melton has a 2.5 mile DC test track but I believe units have to clock up 1,500 or 2,000 miles of testing.

Who says they have to - are there strict rules?
Just seems that if other variants have tested most of the trains systems then it wouldn’t take much testing to be confident the new trains would be more reliable than the current ones!

 

[RichT54]

Who says they have to - are there strict rules?
Just seems that if other variants have tested most of the trains systems then it wouldn’t take much testing to be confident the new trains would be more reliable than the current ones!

Do they need testing for safety as well as reliability?

 

[Chris125]

As I might have said before could they test them overnight out of Weymouth, the lines relatively quiet and Weymouth has sidings to accommodate them. Has history of testing trains before (including the recent 455 AC traction conversions) so testing them there should be a known commodity.

Perhaps, but how do they get there? They aren't as straightforward to move around as self-propelled 230s and they aren't as gauge friendly either, as the bodies haven't been raised to clear platforms. It seems a lot of faff for a small outfit like Vivarail.

Who says they have to - are there strict rules?
Just seems that if other variants have tested most of the trains systems then it wouldn’t take much testing to be confident the new trains would be more reliable than the current ones!

I've just checked and an article in the Railway Magazine earlier this year said they'll need to complete 750 miles fault-free running with testing overnight on the Island (back when the first unit was due in late May...)

Hope this link works: https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-railway-magazine/20200129/281767041365110

 

[swt_passenger]

Who says they have to - are there strict rules?
Just seems that if other variants have tested most of the trains systems then it wouldn’t take much testing to be confident the new trains would be more reliable than the current ones!

I reckon posts about fault free running miles usually include an element of “guess the mileage”, it’s quite rare for the same figure to come up twice in a row. I expect in reality the figure is determined for the particular contract, and it’s rarely published...

(I wrote that before post #485 from @Chris125)

 

[Meerkat]

Perhaps, but how do they get there? They aren't as straightforward to move around as self-propelled 230s and they aren't as gauge friendly either, as the bodies haven't been raised to clear platforms. It seems a lot of faff for a small outfit like Vivarail.



I've just checked and an article in the Railway Magazine earlier this year said they'll need to complete 750 miles fault-free running with testing overnight on the Island (back when the first unit was due in late May...)

Hope this link works: https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-railway-magazine/20200129/281767041365110

So 55 round trips - how many do your reckon you can get through per night...assuming no breakdowns!

 

[Chris125]

So 55 round trips - how many do your reckon you can get through per night...assuming no breakdowns!

If they could get 6 hours overnight they'd surely manage at least 8 return trips, perhaps more?

 

[Meerkat]

If they could get 6 hours overnight they'd surely manage at least 8 return trips, perhaps more?

I used a calculator then typed the wrong number!! It’s 45 trips not 55. So 6 nights with a bit of luck!

 

[Helvellyn]

I've just checked and an article in the Railway Magazine earlier this year said they'll need to complete 750 miles fault-free running with testing overnight on the Island (back when the first unit was due in late May...)

Hope this link works: https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-railway-magazine/20200129/281767041365110

The new issue of RAIL says the same thing - overnight testing and training. Three units will be delivered in the Autumn to allow this, with the remaining two arriving during the blockade next year. Various works (including the platform height increases) mean the '38 stock will cease running at the start of January.

 

[DavidGrain]

I used a calculator then typed the wrong number!! It’s 45 trips not 55. So 6 nights with a bit of luck!

Times 5 units

 

[Meerkat]

The new issue of RAIL says the same thing - overnight testing and training. Three units will be delivered in the Autumn to allow this, with the remaining two arriving during the blockade next year. Various works (including the platform height increases) mean the '38 stock will cease running at the start of January.

Where will they keep the first three, are they clearing out the old trains from the depot early (how many duff ones are in there?)?

 

[DavidGrain]

Are all the platforms still long enough for two units? I remember that the original tube trains were classified 4VEC and 3TIS so 4 car units must have worked the line in the past.

 

[Journeyman]

Are all the platforms still long enough for two units? I remember that the original tube trains were classified 4VEC and 3TIS so 4 car units must have worked the line in the past.

Seven car trains regularly operated when tube stock was first introduced. Apparently the limiting factor is now Lake station, which is long enough for five cars, so yes, paired units will he able to operate.

 

[Chris125]

The new issue of RAIL says the same thing - overnight testing and training. Three units will be delivered in the Autumn to allow this, with the remaining two arriving during the blockade next year. Various works (including the platform height increases) mean the '38 stock will cease running at the start of January.

Well spotted, it's by far the most straightforward option if Vivarail can get them down in time.

Times 5 units

Only three need commissioning before the blockade which should be doable, they are working with Vivarail on how to do the other two before the line reopens.

Seven car trains regularly operated when tube stock was first introduced. Apparently the limiting factor is now Lake station, which is long enough for five cars, so yes, paired units will he able to operate.

Worth noting that a 4-car 484 isn't massively shorter than the 5-car Standard Stock trains the 'modern' stations at Lake and Smallbrook were presumably built for given the longer carriages and modern safety margins, but they should just fit. There isn't much spare room at Shanklin or Pier Head either these days but perhaps TPWS could allow them to stop a little nearer the buffers if need be?

 

[hwl]

Well spotted, it's by far the most straightforward option if Vivarail can get them down in time.



Only three need commissioning before the blockade which should be doable, they are working with Vivarail on how to do the other two before the line reopens.



Worth noting that a 4-car 484 isn't massively shorter than the 5-car Standard Stock trains the 'modern' stations at Lake and Smallbrook were presumably built for given the longer carriages and modern safety margins, but they should just fit. There isn't much spare room at Shanklin or Pier Head either these days but perhaps TPWS could allow them to stop a little nearer the buffers if need be?

Any idea how many axles are actually powered on them post refurb? I'm just wondering as they have 2 driving units and no trailers compared to a mix at LU so they could get away with fewer traction motors on replacement... (you can also get more power out of an AC motor of the same size.)

 

[FlippyFF]

Chances of them visiting Richmond or Wimbledon if they're tested on the mainland?

 

[Rick1984]

Popped by Smallbrook on Saturday, couldn't get a decent photo but they've lifted the Down (southbound) line under Smallbrook Lane as expected - this, and the Up line under Rink Road tackled last week, should address what were believed to be the tightest clearances on the line.

Smallbrook Lane:

Rink Road:

They just lowered the track?

 

[D365]

Any idea how many axles are actually powered on them post refurb? I'm just wondering as they have 2 driving units and no trailers compared to a mix at LU so they could get away with fewer traction motors on replacement... (you can also get more power out of an AC motor of the same size.)

AFAIK all motored axles (D78 spec) remain motored in D-Train form.

 

[Chris125]

Chances of them visiting Richmond or Wimbledon if they're tested on the mainland?

Zilch, RAIL is reporting that they'll be tested on the Island.

They just lowered the track?

Yep, they just need a bit more headroom.

 

[Midnight Sun]

Seem to remiember that the Class 483 units were tested on the Alton line on Sundays before shipping to the IOW.

 

[SouthernR]

At least one pair of 4-VEC & 3-TIS units made test/training runs on the Portsmouth line (seen at Godalming) c.1967.

 

[pompeyfan]

Someone I know who’s a driver and enthusiast has pictures of 483s shuttling around Fratton depot, as well as 485s at various places between Portcreek and Petersfield. One of them has an IC branded 73 on the back, so hopefully that gives a clue to their age.

 

[Paul180]

Someone I know who’s a driver and enthusiast has pictures of 483s shuttling around Fratton depot, as well as 485s at various places between Portcreek and Petersfield. One of them has an IC branded 73 on the back, so hopefully that gives a clue to their age.

They were tested on the Portsmouth direct south of Haslemere, Someone has been posting photos of them on a FB group recently it's probably the same person.

 

[Rick1984]

Service cancelled due to graffiti on train. It was already down to 1 train service. In this circumstance would it not make more sense to run it vandalised, depending on what's happened to it?
On phone so can't copy from article.

Vandalism Leads To Island Line Service Suspension

There is no Island Line train service this morning (Monday) .

www.iwradio.co.uk

 

[cjmillsnun]

Service cancelled due to graffiti on train. It was already down to 1 train service. In this circumstance would it not make more sense to run it vandalised, depending on what's happened to it?
On phone so can't copy from article.

Vandalism Leads To Island Line Service Suspension

There is no Island Line train service this morning (Monday) .

www.iwradio.co.uk

Depends. If it was over the front screens then the driver’s view will be affected.

 

[Journeyman]

Depends. If it was over the front screens then the driver’s view will be affected.

Also if any of it was deemed offensive.

 

[Lockwood]

Service cancelled due to graffiti on train. It was already down to 1 train service. In this circumstance would it not make more sense to run it vandalised, depending on what's happened to it?
On phone so can't copy from article.

Vandalism Leads To Island Line Service Suspension

There is no Island Line train service this morning (Monday) .

www.iwradio.co.uk

There is no Island Line train service this morning (Monday) .

South Western Railway has said graffiti has caused the service to be stopped.

A spokesperson for the company said:

"We have been informed that due to vandalism there is currently no service on the Island Line.

"The service was reduced to one train due to a train fault, but the remaining train in service was vandalised overnight.

"Until the graffiti can be removed the train will be unable to enter service."

All services between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin are suspended.

Happy to help

 

[cav1975]

Service cancelled due to graffiti on train. It was already down to 1 train service. In this circumstance would it not make more sense to run it vandalised, depending on what's happened to it?
On phone so can't copy from article.

Vandalism Leads To Island Line Service Suspension

There is no Island Line train service this morning (Monday) .

www.iwradio.co.uk

Surely running with the graffiti in place would give publicity to the perpetrators and encourage them to do it more often.

 

[Lockwood]

And now they know that they can cause disruption to the island's railway with a spray can