Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

pompeyfan

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Anyone else surprised to see the units will be 100mph capable? Bit pointless as even Woking bay services won't see anywhere near that kind of speed. Surely acceleration rather than speed would be better?


Edit:

It would appear the link to the original press release has been missed when the 2 threads were split. Please see below.

Today! Bombardier Aventra.

http://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2017/20-06-17.aspx
Much needed extra seats for suburban rail services into London Waterloo moved a step closer today as new South Western franchise operators FirstGroup and MTR signed an order for 90 new trains (750 new carriages, in five and 10 car formations).
The £895m fleet of “AVENTRA” trains, providing a 46% increase in peak capacity on the suburban routes into Waterloo, will be manufactured by Bombardier Transportation in Derby. The new trains will enhance the travelling experience for customers...
 
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Anyone else surprised to see the units will be 100mph capable? Bit pointless as even Woking bay services won't see anywhere near that kind of speed. Surely acceleration rather than speed would be better?
They probably will accelerate faster but stating 'We can get up to 60 a whole second quicker'* doesnt sound as good as '100MPH trains'


*illustration purposes only.


This will keep the unions happy to I should imagine.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Anyone else surprised to see the units will be 100mph capable? Bit pointless as even Woking bay services won't see anywhere near that kind of speed. Surely acceleration rather than speed would be better?
Would that be to allow for use to Weymouth or Portsmouth even though they'll never go near either in service (to give operational flexibility)?

Could a follow-on order possibly be being considered as a plan B in-case the re-tractioning of the 442s goes tits up?
 

hwl

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Anyone else surprised to see the units will be 100mph capable? Bit pointless as even Woking bay services won't see anywhere near that kind of speed. Surely acceleration rather than speed would be better?
No - The Anglia ones are all 100mph and 100mph is one of the standard gear ratios.
It is also worth noting that the Aventra traction motors have external blowers so motor cooling is independent of traction motor rotational speed so there won't be the issues that the Alstom 458s and other units have had if operating well below max speed.
The comparatively high number of traction motors compared to existing stock will improve the regenerative braking situation too.
It also means it is more standard is product that can be cascade elsewhere.
 
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infobleep

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Anyone else surprised to see the units will be 100mph capable? Bit pointless as even Woking bay services won't see anywhere near that kind of speed. Surely acceleration rather than speed would be better?
I was just about to post on that point.

Maybe they want to have the operational flexibility to run them on lines where 100mph running is possible. Maybe it will be a future strategy if trains get to crowded in the evening peak on the fast mainline to use these!! <D

So apart from 100moh running what benefits will these bring over the 707? Also does anyone know where 46% increase figure I'd likely to have come from? Does it include the 707s or is it taken from the current cspcoty at the time the press release was written?
 

The Ham

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Anyone else surprised to see the units will be 100mph capable? Bit pointless as even Woking bay services won't see anywhere near that kind of speed. Surely acceleration rather than speed would be better?
If the trains are lighter then they may still be able to accelerate as well as (if not better than the existing) meaning that there's still plenty of scope for the higher top speed.
 

pompeyfan

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Fair points made by all, I must admit I'm not really up to scratch on their product book. I wonder if they'll see service as far as Basingstoke, seeing as Woking crew sign that far and will sign the stock?
 

dp21

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Morning all,

Just come across this article online and felt it would be worth starting a thread for the continuing development of these units!


http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/der...-900-million/story-30399577-detail/story.html
Derby train-maker Bombardier has landed another huge order worth almost £900 million.
This morning, First Group/MTR, the new franchisee of South West Trains, announced that it had selected the Litchurch Lane firm to supply 750 carriages. The deal, worth £895 million represents the third largest contract the Derby site has won since 2014....
 
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Fair points made by all, I must admit I'm not really up to scratch on their product book. I wonder if they'll see service as far as Basingstoke, seeing as Woking crew sign that far and will sign the stock?
It's very possible - there are a few trains to the local stations in the morning that can be a little....cosy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Basing crew signing the stock as well
 

pompeyfan

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It's very possible - there are a few trains to the local stations in the morning that can be a little....cosy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Basing crew signing the stock as well
To be fair Basingstoke already sign 455/456 as they do a few Woking bays and possibly some other stuff, so it's very likely they will.
 

Monty

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Fair points made by all, I must admit I'm not really up to scratch on their product book. I wonder if they'll see service as far as Basingstoke, seeing as Woking crew sign that far and will sign the stock?
In all likelihood Basingstoke will also sign the stock as they will be used on routes they have diagrams on. That said I don't expect these units to be seen on Basingstoke stoppers unless during disruption.
 

samuelmorris

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I wonder what the rationale is behind changing their appearance? I do agree the render is better looking than the 'final product' in the form of the 345s, and judging by the renders, the 720s as well, but the product has existed long enough I'd have thought for any concept renders to be wildly inaccurate.
 

CosherB

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I wonder what the rationale is behind changing their appearance? I do agree the render is better looking than the 'final product' in the form of the 345s, and judging by the renders, the 720s as well, but the product has existed long enough I'd have thought for any concept renders to be wildly inaccurate.
Simply because a small change has made them look far better than the Crossrail units?
 

dp21

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I wonder what the rationale is behind changing their appearance? I do agree the render is better looking than the 'final product' in the form of the 345s, and judging by the renders, the 720s as well, but the product has existed long enough I'd have thought for any concept renders to be wildly inaccurate.
Sorry for my ignorance but is anyone able to post a photo please?
 
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I wonder what the rationale is behind changing their appearance? I do agree the render is better looking than the 'final product' in the form of the 345s, and judging by the renders, the 720s as well, but the product has existed long enough I'd have thought for any concept renders to be wildly inaccurate.
The slopey cab is nice looking and all; but for attachments/detachments at Waterloo (and elsewhere) space is tight as it is; plus there needs to be as much space for pax as possible within the carriage length
 

47802

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The slopey cab is nice looking and all; but for attachments/detachments at Waterloo (and elsewhere) space is tight as it is; plus there needs to be as much space for pax as possible within the carriage length
The slopey cab designs are to help meet the latest crash regulations, and certainly look better than the original 455's and 317's which probably take the award for the ugliest trains in the world.
 
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dp21

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Thanks!

Interesting to see they've followed suit with GA in not having corridor connections too. As was also said above, they certainly look better than the 345s in my opinion but a surprising departure from the GA/LO units which were more of a minor development of the 345 design.

The cab appears noticeably smaller; wonder why given the LO units will also be 20m vehicles so I can't see it being all about space saving?
 

SpacePhoenix

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Why are you always so determined to add unnecessary complexity to rail operations? They are an order for suburban trains, with suburban interiors. The last thing we need is them operating Weymouth services.
Why would they be geared for 100mph running if they didn't have any intention of running them a long away along the routes to Weymouth (or at least Bournemouth) and Portsmouth?

No mention of toilets??
http://firstmtrswstaff.com/#better_trains

Delivering a better travel experience
We’re committed to making life better for our customers by providing:

Free Wi-Fi on-board mainland trains and at stations – with 5 times more bandwidth than today
Charging points on all trains by December 2020
1,500 new car parking spaces across the network
60 Electric Vehicle charging points at stations
Free infotainment on all mainland fleet
Toilets on all mainland trains
Live updates to passenger information screens on our mainland trains by December 2020
 

dp21

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Why would they be geared for 100mph running if they didn't have any intention of running them a long away along the routes to Weymouth (or at least Bournemouth) and Portsmouth?
Possible for cascade reasons? Thinking for the future?

Just a thought.
 

F Great Eastern

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CAF was not possible in the time-frame so they went to Bombardier, which was a stakeholders preferred option.

I stated this in the other thread months ago after someone from the rolling stock industry told me and was laughed out the thread....
 

Feathers44

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The slopey cab designs are to help meet the latest crash regulations, and certainly look better than the original 455's and 317's which probably take the award for the ugliest trains in the world.
My feeling is completely the reverse! The look of the front end is diabolical!
 

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