Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by pompeyfan, 20 Jun 2017.

  1. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    Anyone else surprised to see the units will be 100mph capable? Bit pointless as even Woking bay services won't see anywhere near that kind of speed. Surely acceleration rather than speed would be better?


    Edit:

    It would appear the link to the original press release has been missed when the 2 threads were split. Please see below.

     
    Last edited: 20 Jun 2017
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  3. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    They probably will accelerate faster but stating 'We can get up to 60 a whole second quicker'* doesnt sound as good as '100MPH trains'


    *illustration purposes only.


    This will keep the unions happy to I should imagine.
     
  4. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    Would that be to allow for use to Weymouth or Portsmouth even though they'll never go near either in service (to give operational flexibility)?

    Could a follow-on order possibly be being considered as a plan B in-case the re-tractioning of the 442s goes tits up?
     
  5. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Thank goodness they're not as ugly as the 345s.
     
  6. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    No - The Anglia ones are all 100mph and 100mph is one of the standard gear ratios.
    It is also worth noting that the Aventra traction motors have external blowers so motor cooling is independent of traction motor rotational speed so there won't be the issues that the Alstom 458s and other units have had if operating well below max speed.
    The comparatively high number of traction motors compared to existing stock will improve the regenerative braking situation too.
    It also means it is more standard is product that can be cascade elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: 20 Jun 2017
  7. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I was just about to post on that point.

    Maybe they want to have the operational flexibility to run them on lines where 100mph running is possible. Maybe it will be a future strategy if trains get to crowded in the evening peak on the fast mainline to use these!! <D

    So apart from 100moh running what benefits will these bring over the 707? Also does anyone know where 46% increase figure I'd likely to have come from? Does it include the 707s or is it taken from the current cspcoty at the time the press release was written?
     
  8. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    If the trains are lighter then they may still be able to accelerate as well as (if not better than the existing) meaning that there's still plenty of scope for the higher top speed.
     
  9. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    Fair points made by all, I must admit I'm not really up to scratch on their product book. I wonder if they'll see service as far as Basingstoke, seeing as Woking crew sign that far and will sign the stock?
     
  10. dp21

    dp21 Member

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    Morning all,

    Just come across this article online and felt it would be worth starting a thread for the continuing development of these units!


    http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/der...-900-million/story-30399577-detail/story.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 20 Jun 2017
  11. godfreycomplex

    godfreycomplex Member

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    It's very possible - there are a few trains to the local stations in the morning that can be a little....cosy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Basing crew signing the stock as well
     
  12. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    To be fair Basingstoke already sign 455/456 as they do a few Woking bays and possibly some other stuff, so it's very likely they will.
     
  13. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    In all likelihood Basingstoke will also sign the stock as they will be used on routes they have diagrams on. That said I don't expect these units to be seen on Basingstoke stoppers unless during disruption.
     
  14. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    I wonder what the rationale is behind changing their appearance? I do agree the render is better looking than the 'final product' in the form of the 345s, and judging by the renders, the 720s as well, but the product has existed long enough I'd have thought for any concept renders to be wildly inaccurate.
     
  15. CosherB

    CosherB Established Member

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    Simply because a small change has made them look far better than the Crossrail units?
     
  16. dp21

    dp21 Member

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    Sorry for my ignorance but is anyone able to post a photo please?
     
  17. godfreycomplex

    godfreycomplex Member

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    The slopey cab is nice looking and all; but for attachments/detachments at Waterloo (and elsewhere) space is tight as it is; plus there needs to be as much space for pax as possible within the carriage length
     
  18. godfreycomplex

    godfreycomplex Member

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  19. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Why are you always so determined to add unnecessary complexity to rail operations? They are an order for suburban trains, with suburban interiors. The last thing we need is them operating Weymouth services.
     
  20. 47802

    47802 On Moderation

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    The slopey cab designs are to help meet the latest crash regulations, and certainly look better than the original 455's and 317's which probably take the award for the ugliest trains in the world.
     
    Last edited: 20 Jun 2017
  21. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    No mention of toilets??
     
  22. dp21

    dp21 Member

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    Thanks!

    Interesting to see they've followed suit with GA in not having corridor connections too. As was also said above, they certainly look better than the 345s in my opinion but a surprising departure from the GA/LO units which were more of a minor development of the 345 design.

    The cab appears noticeably smaller; wonder why given the LO units will also be 20m vehicles so I can't see it being all about space saving?
     
  23. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Deleted - I forgot about the franchise spec...
     
    Last edited: 20 Jun 2017
  24. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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  25. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Possibly, but it would be of a completely different configuration more akin to the Class 444.
     
  26. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    Why would they be geared for 100mph running if they didn't have any intention of running them a long away along the routes to Weymouth (or at least Bournemouth) and Portsmouth?

    http://firstmtrswstaff.com/#better_trains

     
  27. dp21

    dp21 Member

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    Possible for cascade reasons? Thinking for the future?

    Just a thought.
     
  28. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

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    CAF was not possible in the time-frame so they went to Bombardier, which was a stakeholders preferred option.

    I stated this in the other thread months ago after someone from the rolling stock industry told me and was laughed out the thread....
     
  29. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    If it's for cascade reasons, then could the DfT be specifying that all new EMUs be capable of running at 100mph or higher?
     
  30. Feathers44

    Feathers44 Member

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    My feeling is completely the reverse! The look of the front end is diabolical!
     
  31. dp21

    dp21 Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be interested to hear if someone is able to find out the concrete reasoning.
     

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