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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

hwl

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This is what I mean.
The difference between that design and the London Overground must be nominal, unless you're redesigning the whole cab as well as the front end. Which then begs the question why isn't it a different class if it's going to be quite different?
Although I suppose between the 172s, there's quite a difference but they're still the same class.

But they aren't the same class.
LO is 710
SWR is 701
 
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jopsuk

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They are a different class- LO will have Class 710, SWR will have class 701.
 

43096

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Isn't the problem with 710's software related?

So the physical building of the trains is not the issue.

Once the software build is sorted then why would their be any delay on getting GA or SWR's out testing once built?
The actual building may not be an issue, but they can’t be commissioned until the software is sorted out, then type acceptance and then run the fault-free mileage etc (which requires use of scarce mainline paths). The commissioning team will also be of a certain size, so there is a physical limit as to how fast they can be accepted. With all the backlog now I cannot see how the GA and SWR orders are going to be delivered on time.
 

Harbon 1

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Is there any information about how the build is progressing? Given Bombardier's difficulties with the Crossrail 345 and LOTrain 710 fleets, which are both now more than 18 months late, and rumours about the Greater Anglia Cl720 fleet being late, I wouldn't be surprised if the SWR delivery dates are also going to slip.
The production line is ready, and the first roof and underframe were being assembled last week
 

AM9

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I suspect a Metropolitan peak train from Amersham or Cheshunt has a lot more space on it at say

a travel card from Brookwood is 35 quid. It is supposed to take 35 minutes or so the get to Waterloo. It doesn’t. It almost invariably runs 5-10 minutes late. So it takes nearer 45 minutes. I decided it on my perception of value. I expect a seat when I buy a ticket to be the norm. Or I expect rapid fast and reliable. It isn’t. In London it’s travel card pricing so you expect less. Or rather you are more likely to have to stand. From, guildford, brookwood, woking, sometimes even Farnham and Haslemere can see you standing. That isn’t acceptable For the fares wanted. This is not metroland. This is Surrey. The rates charged have risen by a lot. The car parking has gone up significantly more than regulated fares. There are no discounted period returns. I think again the railway forgets that it is there for the human cargo, not for itself. Are we unreasonable in expecting to at least sit down when you make us late almost every day. You’re a purchase that it is a virtual necessity. At least make it a little less intolerable.

You need to get out of your 'self-entitled Surrey traveller' bubble and realise that you are just another south-east commuter. The SWML is like most of the the other main routes into London virtually at capacity in the peak. Trains are generally at maximum practical length which is determined by the infrastructure. There is no way that additional carriage space can be provided, so what gives. There is only one way to go, that is fit more passengers into each train. You may not have noticed, but a seated passenger (including the seat that they occupy) takes up more space than four standees.
Now jump out of your bubble and think what the alternative is. Yes, it means leaving fare-paying passengers on the platform because they can't board an already full train. It might nt be at Brookwood so you would be OK, but in the real world, the railway is run for all passengers, not just those from Brookwood, (or even the whole of Surrey) who think that they are entitled to a seat at everybody else's expense. This is the future of commuting into London (and certain other UK cities in a few years) and passengers on other lines have had to get used to it. Take Thameslink, the lines run at saturation point, The trains are run at maximum length, and are full - even the class 700s, but most passengers are now seeing that a standing place on a train speeding towards their destination is far preferable to standing on a cold platform letting two trains depart without them because they are already crush loaded. Now it's your turn to get used to that so get over it.

The cost of a monthly travel card is approaching £450. (Brookwood). How does someone on normal wages (say 35k justify spending the thick end of 20-25% of their net income on a slow, regularly delayed train service. Plus about another 100 a month to park. And accept that they will be standing up for the thick end of two hours a day. Why bother working in London ? (I don’t know why so many actually do do it). Trains are very expensive. For people in the real world who have to an for themselves and have to commute. At the moment all that happens is that they are exploited by ever worse provision of service and quality (or would you disagree with that?). They pay ever more and get less.

OK, so a Brookwood monthly travelcard is £441.60 which when used for 20 return journeys is under 41p per mile. A St Albans monthly travelcard is £435.50 which for 20 return journeys is over 54p per mile! So it looks like you aren't so hard done by.
Whining about your travelling wishes won't change anything. You ask "Why bother working in London ?"; - if you feel it isn't for you then do something about it.

Or are you going near third class travel, Ryanair style.... a carriage that costs half as much but is a GUV with push button doors and standing room ..... actually I’d better not suggest that, even tongue in cheek.

The overall cost per coach of a 100mph EMU doesn't vary much whether it is equipped for high density commuting loads or low capacity branch line traffic.
 

Matt Taylor

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Very well put. We can't make the trains longer or run more of them, the network is at capacity so you either have to accept the situation asit is or change it by opting not to work in London. As for cost, well living in Surrey is significantly cheaper than living in London, but there is the additional cost of commuting. I'm open to hearing realistic ways of improving the situation from anyone, bearing in mind overreaching arm of current Dft policy.
 

swt_passenger

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Very well put. We can't make the trains longer or run more of them, the network is at capacity so you either have to accept the situation asit is or change it by opting not to work in London. As for cost, well living in Surrey is significantly cheaper than living in London, but there is the additional cost of commuting. I'm open to hearing realistic ways of improving the situation from anyone, bearing in mind overreaching arm of current Dft policy.
I wonder how long it is since every Guildford commuter got a seat? Suppose it can’t be much more than a few decades ago...
 

Mordac

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Very well put. We can't make the trains longer or run more of them, the network is at capacity so you either have to accept the situation asit is or change it by opting not to work in London. As for cost, well living in Surrey is significantly cheaper than living in London, but there is the additional cost of commuting. I'm open to hearing realistic ways of improving the situation from anyone, bearing in mind overreaching arm of current Dft policy.
Change the location on your job search engine of choice to 'Birmingham.' :p
 

physics34

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Very well put. We can't make the trains longer or run more of them, the network is at capacity so you either have to accept the situation asit is or change it by opting not to work in London. As for cost, well living in Surrey is significantly cheaper than living in London, but there is the additional cost of commuting. I'm open to hearing realistic ways of improving the situation from anyone, bearing in mind overreaching arm of current Dft policy.

I hope that anyone who works in the capital realises trains will always be packed. I think the cost is the issue though. Fares are too high. ...
 

Meerkat

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Fares are too high. ...

Again...on what basis?
They don’t cover all the costs so are you saying that taxpayers should further subsidise London wages and people living out in the countryside (at the cost of those who live there and don’t commute....)?
 

Helvellyn

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Very well put. We can't make the trains longer or run more of them, the network is at capacity so you either have to accept the situation asit is or change it by opting not to work in London. As for cost, well living in Surrey is significantly cheaper than living in London, but there is the additional cost of commuting. I'm open to hearing realistic ways of improving the situation from anyone, bearing in mind overreaching arm of current Dft policy.
Smart cards were supposed to open the way for more flexible pricing, e.g. arrive in London before 07:00 and pay an off peak fare or pay more for arriving in the golden/crush hour of 08:00-09:00.

Has never happened and possibly is still years off.

It is one of the reasons people like Barry Doe argue BR would have scrapped returns and introduced single leg pricing years ago to properly price for demand.
 

Kite159

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Smart cards were supposed to open the way for more flexible pricing, e.g. arrive in London before 07:00 and pay an off peak fare or pay more for arriving in the golden/crush hour of 08:00-09:00.

Has never happened and possibly is still years off.

It is one of the reasons people like Barry Doe argue BR would have scrapped returns and introduced single leg pricing years ago to properly price for demand.

I bet some TOCs would love to be able to set Super Peak fares for services arriving between 08:00-09:00, just think of all that extra revenue from those unable to change their work pattern...

... It will cause extra loadings for those services arriving before the price hike and after that hike.
 

AM9

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I bet some TOCs would love to be able to set Super Peak fares for services arriving between 08:00-09:00, just think of all that extra revenue from those unable to change their work pattern ...
However, it is an undeniable fact that the disproportional cost of rolling stock and infrastructure provision and operation, soley to serve peak demand, exceeds the revenue collected from passengers that it carries (per passenger), compared with off-peak ticket receipts. That isn't to say that high capacity rail services aren't far better environmentally for all, compared to private road transport, - especially in the south-east.
 
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infobleep

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Very well put. We can't make the trains longer or run more of them, the network is at capacity so you either have to accept the situation asit is or change it by opting not to work in London. As for cost, well living in Surrey is significantly cheaper than living in London, but there is the additional cost of commuting. I'm open to hearing realistic ways of improving the situation from anyone, bearing in mind overreaching arm of current Dft policy.
I thought Surrey was meant to be as expensive as London.
 

pompeyfan

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First 2 pictures of 701s under construction are floating about on an internal news letter. If I see one I’ll try and take a picture, but pictures are tiny so don’t expect much.
 

Ethano92

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Looks very smart, (at least the side pannel does) shame the interior will be bare and clinical like the 700s.

I hope that front doesnt stay yellow and is just factory colours because that much yellow is overkill.

Thanks for sharing, either way looking forward to these when they eventually come about.
 

Swanage98

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Yellow Fronts? They looked better with the Black Fronts as per the artist impression I thought.
 

Goldfish62

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Yellow Fronts? They looked better with the Black Fronts as per the artist impression I thought.
Indeed. Appears that only TfL so far have gone for non yellow fronts and GA and SWR have backtracked. In SWR's case though, yellow is part of the livery, being the skirt cheatline, so there's a bit of continuity.
 

AlexNL

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And once again a front which looks slightly different from the other Aventra's (the light clusters) :)
 

PomWombat

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I hope that anyone who works in the capital realises trains will always be packed. I think the cost is the issue though. Fares are too high. ...

Economics tells you that to reduce demand (ie make the trains less packed), the price has to go up.
It'd be different if a TOC could supply more, but they're mostly at capacity.

I used to live in Brookwood, where the short journey time to Waterloo was great, even if the price and peak hour seat availability was bad.

I now commute on Northern into Leeds. The journey time is the same, I'm likely to get a seat (though the train will be just as rammed by the end), but the monthly price is about one-third.
 

Warrior2852

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The train looks very nice, glad to see production is progressing. Personally I think the trains are better with the dark blue front as per the artist's impression, but I suppose yellow works as well.
 

Goldfish62

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And once again a front which looks slightly different from the other Aventra's (the light clusters) :)
It's actually quite a different front if the artist's impressions are followed. It's less raked and appears to be the version that is capable of having a through gangway.
 

swt_passenger

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Indeed. Appears that only TfL so far have gone for non yellow fronts and GA and SWR have backtracked. In SWR's case though, yellow is part of the livery, being the skirt cheatline, so there's a bit of continuity.
Aren’t the 717s already running around without yellow?
 

XCTurbostar

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82964218-7184-41DF-AE4C-5267373224FE.jpeg
Looks like SWR have taken inspiration from my ‘Slight improvements to a livery’ post from last year!
 

theking

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Wonder why they have had to go for a whole new front cab design surely the 707 don't have that much of a bigger cab front slant than the aventura
 
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