Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[Ethano92]

Ethano, are you a train driver? Low adhesion occurs in the London area even if trains are running every couple of minutes.... Caution is king....

And are we gonna make the assumptions every single day has conditions causing low adhesion, what about all the days that are dry and and plain average? I'm sure being a mainline, in leafall season Network rail will be clearing the line often. I'm saying the tube, despite with problems in low adhesion situations, can run in a similar way. I don't get why we are dismissing this technology as something that won't work when as far as I know, it's not currently used anywhere in the UK except full ATO which works in itself as an aside.

For all the times trains can run fine without adhesion problems why can't this be used, why ignore all of those times?

 

[bramling]

Thameslink core...

Thameslink is still a special case, in that it’s a low-speed metro railway which doesn’t really have to worry about changing adhesion.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thameslink is still a special case, in that it’s a low-speed metro railway which doesn’t really have to worry about changing adhesion.

Yes it does. Changes in adhesion have had to be taken into account in the design of the system. It's widely acknowledged in the industry to be the first application of ATO on a main line railway in the world. Not a "low speed metro railway".

 

[dctraindriver]

And are we gonna make the assumptions every single day has conditions causing low adhesion, what about all the days that are dry and and plain average? I'm sure being a mainline, in leafall season Network rail will be clearing the line often. I'm saying the tube, despite with problems in low adhesion situations, can run in a similar way. I don't get why we are dismissing this technology as something that won't work when as far as I know, it's not currently used anywhere in the UK except full ATO which works in itself as an aside.

For all the times trains can run fine without adhesion problems why can't this be used, why ignore all of those times?

I’ll assume you’re not then.....

I’ve had low adhesion in summer. Work that one out....

 

[Ethano92]

I’ll assume you’re not then.....

I’ve had low adhesion in summer. Work that one out....

Ignored my point but sure I'm unable to have a valid opinion since I'm not a professional...

I mean unless you're claiming you have low adhesion all 365 days of the year but I wouldn't know, I'm not the almighty driver here...

 

[nuts & bolts]

Ignored my point but sure I'm unable to have a valid opinion since I'm not a professional...

I mean unless you're claiming you have low adhesion all 365 days of the year but I wouldn't know, I'm not the almighty driver here...

Neither am I, ‘Micro Climates’ come to mind though.

 

[Bald Rick]

deleted

 

[Bald Rick]

Thameslink is still a special case, in that it’s a low-speed metro railway which doesn’t really have to worry about changing adhesion.

Yes it does. Changes in adhesion have had to be taken into account in the design of the system. It's widely acknowledged in the industry to be the first application of ATO on a main line railway in the world. Not a "low speed metro railway".

Quite, getting up the bank into Blackfriars yesterday morning and the WSP was squealing like mad!

 

[43096]

I’ll assume you’re not then.....

I’ve had low adhesion in summer. Work that one out....

Very simple really. Prolonged dry spell. End dry spell with rain. Mix with contaminants on the railhead.

 

[Warrior2852]

Anyone have any ideas when we will actually be getting these? I haven't seen any news for ages, and there isn't much anywhere about how much of any train has actually been built. This combined with the delays to all the other Aventras (notably the 710s causing chaos on the Overground) would make the currently unchanged first intro date of this year somewhat optimistic! I have also asked SWR on Twitter if there was any information or amended dates, and I just received the expected vague "they are going to be introduced" response. I hope they aren't too late, there is a long list of problems with the 455s and 456s!

 

[Goldfish62]

Anyone have any ideas when we will actually be getting these? I haven't seen any news for ages, and there isn't much anywhere about how much of any train has actually been built. This combined with the delays to all the other Aventras (notably the 710s causing chaos on the Overground) would make the currently unchanged first intro date of this year somewhat optimistic! I have also asked SWR on Twitter if there was any information or amended dates, and I just received the expected vague "they are going to be introduced" response. I hope they aren't too late, there is a long list of problems with the 455s and 456s!

Given that were a couple of photos a couple of months ago of a partly built unit I would have thought they're pretty much on time being built, but whether they'll actually work is another question altogether

 

[Goldfish62]

Modern Railways reports that the first four five car units are currently under construction. There's currently one production line, ramping up to two later this year.

The new head of "Aventra Platform" is none other than "Mr Siemens", Christian Roth, who suddenly vanished as SWT MD a few years ago.

 

[anamyd]

The new head of "Aventra Platform" is none other than "Mr Siemens"

 

[Warrior2852]

Modern Railways reports that the first four five car units are currently under construction. There's currently one production line, ramping up to two later this year.

The new head of "Aventra Platform" is none other than "Mr Siemens", Christian Roth, who suddenly vanished as SWT MD a few years ago.

Is this based on what we know at least vaguely on schedule? The last thing we need is another 710 situation with these trains ending up in service years after they are meant to be.

 

[hwl]

Is this based on what we know at least vaguely on schedule? The last thing we need is another 710 situation with these trains ending up in service years after they are meant to be.

Yep. This look like one of the two 710 production lines (i.e. focused on 20m stock) has been turned over to start 701 production with the other 710 line to follow when the last AC units have been completed. The dual voltage and most of the AC units have already been completed and there space is short so starting to build up a "stock" of 701s makes sense.
All the mechanical and electrical design stuff looks like it is OK on the Aventra just the software is problematic.
For testing (inc software) and driver training purposes having a reaonable number of units is very helpful.
It looks like they are building all the 5cars first (only 30 units) which also makes sense as it provides more units for fleet introduction earlier and delivers the 10cars units* which will need the new stabling last (e.g. more time to complete Feltham)

*there are a fair number of 8 car max sidings.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yep. This look like one of the two 710 production lines (i.e. focused on 20m stock) has been turned over to start 701 production with the other 710 line to follow when the last AC units have been completed. The dual voltage and most of the AC units have already been completed and there space is short so starting to build up a "stock" of 701s makes sense.
All the mechanical and electrical design stuff looks like it is OK on the Aventra just the software is problematic.
For testing (inc software) and driver training purposes having a reaonable number of units is very helpful.
It looks like they are building all the 5cars first (only 30 units) which also makes sense as it provides more units for fleet introduction earlier and delivers the 10cars units* which will need the new stabling last (e.g. more time to complete Feltham)

*there are a fair number of 8 car max sidings.

The site has been cleared at Feltham. Has the planning permission been granted now?

 

[hwl]

The site has been cleared at Feltham. Has the planning permission been granted now?

I haven't checked in a while but de-veging in winter is now key in the Gove Defra era to avoid 6-7 month waits

 

[swt_passenger]

The site has been cleared at Feltham. Has the planning permission been granted now?

Approval granted 1 Mar 2019. Planning reference is 00553/F/PA3, as is often the case the Hounslow planning website doesn’t allow direct linking to documents.

 

[RealTrains07]

Just seen modern railways:
( if you know this information already, apologise just thought it would be useful incase)

What i gained from that is Derby is building the first 701 as we speak using 1 production line for the entire SWR fleet (at the moment)

Gonna build the first five 5 car units for testing on their track before they start full on production of the rest of the fleet.

Bombardier starting to speed up with progress.

Also got a look at what looks like to be the final design for the 701 as well. Not the best quality photo

 

[K.o.R]

Just seen modern railways:
( if you know this information already, apologise just thought it would be useful incase)

What i gained from that is Derby is building the first 701 as we speak using 1 production line for the entire SWR fleet (at the moment)

Gonna build the first five 5 car units for testing on their track before they start full on production of the rest of the fleet.

Bombardier starting to speed up with progress.

Also got a look at what looks like to be the final design for the 701 as well. Not the best quality photo

Looks very smart.

 

[43055]

Just seen modern railways:
( if you know this information already, apologise just thought it would be useful incase)

What i gained from that is Derby is building the first 701 as we speak using 1 production line for the entire SWR fleet (at the moment)

Gonna build the first five 5 car units for testing on their track before they start full on production of the rest of the fleet.

Bombardier starting to speed up with progress.

Also got a look at what looks like to be the final design for the 701 as well. Not the best quality photo

That does look nice. One cab end arrived at lunchtime today so it may not too be long now (first time I have seen SWR colours).

 

[RealTrains07]

That does look nice. One cab end arrived at lunchtime today so it may not too be long now (first time I have seen SWR colours).

Not a particular fan of the yellow front to be quite honest, yellow front looks far better on the 158, 159 and the desiros

 

[43055]

Not a particular fan of the yellow front to be quite honest, yellow front looks far better on the 158, 159 and the desiros

From what I have seen the yellow does work well on the current stock. I will see if I can get a photo once the first one comes out and make a judgement then. I didn't get much of a look today.

 

[theking]

Have these been specced with doo equipment?

 

[Goldfish62]

Have these been specced with doo equipment?

Everything comes with DOO equipment these days. The 707s did.

 

[Goldfish62]

Approval granted 1 Mar 2019. Planning reference is 00553/F/PA3, as is often the case the Hounslow planning website doesn’t allow direct linking to documents.

Thanks. Yes, I tried to look but had problems as you've highlighted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Everything comes with DOO equipment these days. The 707s did.

And while that may have a "nefarious" purpose (i.e. more DOO) it is also for flexibility of redeployment later.

 

[Goldfish62]

And while that may have a "nefarious" purpose (i.e. more DOO) it is also for flexibility of redeployment later.

Exactly. Much more economical for it to be included in the original build rather than having to retrofit later.

 

[theking]

Everything comes with DOO equipment these days. The 707s did.

Yes mentioned it as I cant see the cameras in that render picture posted a few up and was thinking if not specced would be madness in these days just incase they get cascaded elsewhere in future.

 

[supervc-10]

The wiper coming from the centre of the yellow panel just looks... odd.