Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[Bletchleyite]

The wiper coming from the centre of the yellow panel just looks... odd.

The shortened cab is purely for practicality, it isn't meant to look nice. But I do agree that sticks out a bit. They resemble Class 319s a bit, sort-of.

 

[RealTrains07]

The wiper coming from the centre of the yellow panel just looks... odd.

I cant unsee that now couldnt have they put it higher up

 

[swt_passenger]

I cant unsee that now couldnt have they put it higher up

They’d get a better coverage area the further down it is fitted...

 

[pigs bay]

I think the class 701 would look better with the front of the Class 730. At least when 2x5 are coupled together you can walk thru' them!!

 

[RealTrains07]

I think the class 701 would look better with the front of the Class 730. At least when 2x5 are coupled together you can walk thru' them!!

Are they coupling 2x5 units. I thought the 10 car units were meant remove that factor

 

[Goldfish62]

Are they coupling 2x5 units. I thought the 10 car units were meant remove that factor

Three are 60 x 10 car and 30 x 5 car. If the 5 car units weren't coupled in the peaks you'd have horrendous overcrowding.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don’t think the exact purpose for the 60/30 split of 10/5 car has ever been explained in detail, as Goldfish says they all need to be 10 car in the peaks, so will probably remain 10 car all day on weekdays.

Do they still run short “red trains” on some inner suburban routes on Sundays? Maybe that’s why. Another point made a while back was that there may be a more practical reason, perhaps there’s a depot somewhere that 10 car trains just don’t fit.

 

[Ethano92]

I don’t think the exact purpose for the 60/30 split of 10/5 car has ever been explained in detail, as Goldfish says they all need to be 10 car in the peaks, so will probably remain 10 car all day on weekdays.

Do they still run short “red trains” on some inner suburban routes on Sundays? Maybe that’s why. Another point made a while back was that there may be a more practical reason, perhaps there’s a depot somewhere that 10 car trains just don’t fit.

Some weekends you do get 4 car trains on every route except the Kingston loop and shepperton line. Don't really know why as 4 cars isn't adequate a lot of the time even on a Saturday. Not that anyone is left behind but the trains get more full than you'd expect/want/should be for weekends.

 

[TEW]

I don’t think the exact purpose for the 60/30 split of 10/5 car has ever been explained in detail, as Goldfish says they all need to be 10 car in the peaks, so will probably remain 10 car all day on weekdays.

Do they still run short “red trains” on some inner suburban routes on Sundays? Maybe that’s why. Another point made a while back was that there may be a more practical reason, perhaps there’s a depot somewhere that 10 car trains just don’t fit.

There are 5-car diagrams on the Windsor side at present on Weekdays. That includes diagrams at peak times that are away from the main peak flow. The 1652 and 1922 Waterloo to Weybridge for example are booked 5 cars.

 

[Goldfish62]

Some weekends you do get 4 car trains on every route except the Kingston loop and shepperton line. Don't really know why as 4 cars isn't adequate a lot of the time even on a Saturday. Not that anyone is left behind but the trains get more full than you'd expect/want/should be for weekends.

The Reading line is 100% 8/10 coaches at weekends. It certainly couldn't cope with five car trains, unless the proposed 4tph all day every day service is ever introduced.

 

[hwl]

There are 5-car diagrams on the Windsor side at present on Weekdays. That includes diagrams at peak times that are away from the main peak flow. The 1652 and 1922 Waterloo to Weybridge for example are booked 5 cars.

The proposed future increase in via Chertsey Loop shuttle services (is this stil the long term plan?) would certainly fit as an explanation for some 5 car originally.

A 5cars delivered first will also help with introduction in service especially before Feltham is delivered etc.

 

[swt_passenger]

The proposed future increase in via Chertsey Loop shuttle services (is this stil the long term plan?) would certainly fit as an explanation for some 5 car originally...

I’m almost certain Chertsey shuttles (ie Weybridge <> Virginia Water only) got ruled out after that “post franchise award reconsultation”, in favour of retaining existing through Waterloo to Weybridge services.

But surely even if there had been intended to have a few more different short services that didn’t ever reach Waterloo, 30 would still be far too many?

 

[TEW]

30 5-car 701s matches exactly the number of 707s, which out of the Suburban fleet are (or at least were until May 2019, not sure if it is still the case) the only fleet to run as single units on Weekdays.

 

[Bessie]

Does anyone have an update on 701 construction progress? When can we expect to see the first unit out on test?

 

[43055]

I haven't seen anything yet but more of the side panels and I think roofs have arrived.

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone have an update on 701 construction progress? When can we expect to see the first unit out on test?

Last report was late Summer on the Old Dalby test track.

 

[whhistle]

Not a particular fan of the yellow front to be quite honest, yellow front looks far better on the 158, 159 and the desiros

Reminds me of Eurostar corporate colours.
But I know the blue is more navy in real life.

 

[whhistle]

I think the class 701 would look better with the front of the Class 730. At least when 2x5 are coupled together you can walk thru' them!!

Isn't the aim not to couple them?
IE, order enough carriages per train that you don't have to think about running two trains?
Because visability with a stupid gangway is terrible.
I think this may have been part of the delay for the Scotrail units.

 

[TrainBoy98]

Because visability with a stupid gangway is terrible.

Should've just kept the 458s as original with their wonderful stowable gangways

All seriousness though, could this be proper option in future or does the concept just kind of, not work?

 

[pompeyfan]

Seems to work on the 380s. The 5 car 701s will attach and detach during the day, no different from the 707s, Thames Turbos, 150/1s and so on.

 

[RealTrains07]

Isn't the aim not to couple them?
IE, order enough carriages per train that you don't have to think about running two trains?
Because visability with a stupid gangway is terrible.
I think this may have been part of the delay for the Scotrail units.

Issue still remains of the guard having to get out of 1 5 car unit and swap to another instead of simply being able to walk through

 

[hwl]

Issue still remains of the guard having to get out of 1 5 car unit and swap to another instead of simply being able to walk through

60 of the fleet will be 10 car so no need to join in regular service.
30 of the fleet will be 5 car some of which will be running as 5 car so may be only 9-10 trains with 2x 5car units in service on weekdays?

 

[swt_passenger]

60 of the fleet will be 10 car so no need to join in regular service.
30 of the fleet will be 5 car some of which will be running as 5 car so may be only 9-10 trains with 2x 5car units in service on weekdays?

Yes, that seems about right. But exactly why this specific ratio of 10 and 5 car 701s has been chosen has never really been specifically explained - the question has been raised quite a few times now.

My suspicion is that there’s still going to be a limitation on stabling siding length somewhere on the existing network, and/or that the numbers are to allow for certain routes to operate with short trains all day on Sundays.

 

[swt_passenger]

Issue still remains of the guard having to get out of 1 5 car unit and swap to another instead of simply being able to walk through

The guards on 701 operated routes are not commercial, they don’t really need to be seen in both units. They have the lack of gangways with 455/456 combos already.

 

[theking]

Ignore

 

[theking]

Probably a long shot but does anyone know why they went for a whole different version of the aventra rather than the standard cab like 345/710/720?.

Surely a lot more risk for them rather than taking a product that's already been tested.

 

[Elshad]

The 345/710/720 cabs are each slightly different as well. The headlight shape, valance around coupler etc. are different. Aventra doesn’t seem very consistent.

 

[swt_passenger]

Probably a long shot but does anyone know why they went for a whole different version of the aventra rather than the standard cab like 345/710/720?.

Surely a lot more risk for them rather than taking a product that's already been tested.

I suspect that if you’re ordering 750 vehicles you can probably get what you ask for, within reason. I’d expect any issues would be far more likely to do with software than minor metal bashing (or GRP moulding) differences...

 

[theking]

I know the 345/710 have quite a lot of electrics in the cab wall so the cab is quite long seems like the 701's have more of a tight electrostar cab.

This is what I meant with risks because surely redesigning that introduced some risks.

 

[hwl]

Probably a long shot but does anyone know why they went for a whole different version of the aventra rather than the standard cab like 345/710/720?.

Surely a lot more risk for them rather than taking a product that's already been tested.

So they could squeeze an extra row of seats in a 20m driving car bodyshell.