Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[infobleep]

I'm surprised they didn't promote the toilet part of the press release as that most definitely is an impotent on the 707s /455s and 456s.

 

[Suraggu]

I'm surprised they didn't promote the toilet part of the press release as that most definitely is an impotent on the 707s /455s and 456s.

Why? In the franchise announcement it states all mainland trains will have a toilet fitted.

 

[CosherB]

I'll give a full appraisal of your remarks when I get home in the evening...

Boy am I looking forward to this! It'll be far better delivered than I could achieve ... although I believe the sentiments will be the same.

 

[Wookiee]

MUs look better with corridor connections. That is all.

 

[CosherB]

MUs look better with corridor connections. That is all.

That may be your opinion. Not everyone else will agree.

 

[physics34]

707's to SN would make a good choice for the 10 car Metro System... Can displace the 455's and maybe release some 377s to help SE with 12 car metro.

But to these new trains. I think the front design is quite pleasing compared to the current 2 Aventra designs!

yeh i dont know how the leasing system works...ie can leases be ended early? but with SNs 455s and 313s looking to be off beyond 2021 anyway, they might aswell get newer stock ASAP

We need someone to photoshop that pic with a yellow front

 

[Wookiee]

That may be your opinion. Not everyone else will agree.

Aye, I know. I just think they look odd. All the Networker family have hideous front-ends.

 

[dp21]

I just read elsewhere that they are not going to be of a walkthrough design. This seems daft as it reduces capacity and creates wheelchair evacuation issues which a walkthrough design eliminates.

Direct extract from the First Group press release:

The £895m fleet of “AVENTRA” trains, providing a 46% increase in peak capacity on the suburban routes into Waterloo, will be manufactured by Bombardier Transportation in Derby. The new trains will enhance the travelling experience for customers with free reliable Wi-Fi, at-seat charging points, real time information screens, air conditioning, wide gangways and wide doors to improve ease of boarding and alighting. The new trains will start to come into service from mid 2019 and will all be in place by December 2020.

I think it's more or less expected of this generation of suburban train that wide gangways are used. Where did you hear otherwise?

 

[CosherB]

yeh i dont know how the leasing system works...ie can leases be ended early? but with SNs 455s and 313s looking to be off beyond 2021 anyway, they might aswell get newer stock ASAP

We need someone to photoshop that pic with a yellow front

Why? It'll never run in service with yellow ends!

 

[GW43125]

We need someone to photoshop that pic with a yellow front

Well volunteered.

 

[Mordac]

I'm surprised they didn't promote the toilet part of the press release as that most definitely is an impotent on the 707s /455s and 456s.

I'd say if you're impotent, you might well also need to use the toilet more often than normal!

 

[samuelmorris]

It's an interesting development - replacement of the 455s and 456s makes sense, though why it's being done quite as early as this is a little odd, I suppose to fulfil their 'every train has a toilet' obligation as early as possible. It does leave Bombardier with a very sizeable order book now, though, with to my recollection 2156 vehicles to deliver between now and the end of 2020. I'll be quite impressed if they pull that off.
As far as displacement of existing stock, I can't really work out what Southeastern can actually accept in terms of additional units - the 377/5 lease arrangement has me a little confused there. Presumably re-tractioned 455s could replace the existing 455/8s on Southern and the remaining 313s as well? Where the 707s will end up though I've no idea.

 

[47802]

Having seen the Stadler mock-ups (I'm yet to visit it but should be soon) the seats seem a little better than those on the 700s and latest Electrostars so hopefully there are alternatives but given that Bombardier seem to prefer these ironing boards I would have to guess that these will likely return...

Possibly Bombardier might prefer ironing board seats by default, but the 345's don't have ironing board style seats so the customer could presumably specify alternatives if it wanted.

 

[HowardGWR]

I'd say if you're impotent, you might well also need to use the toilet more often than normal!

Are impotent people also incontinent then?

 

[Roast Veg]

By opening that thumbnail image in a new tab, I was able to source a much larger version of the image with some creative URL modification here

 

[47802]

By opening that thumbnail image in a new tab, I was able to source a much larger version of the image with some creative URL modification here

I think they look a lot better on the bigger image and if they do actually turn out like that looks like a real attempt to clean up the styling. Also a change of cab door, is that related to fact that these trains wont be DOO?, although of course the original images of the 345's had this style door.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just because something would never have happened in 2014, doesn't mean that it might not happen now

Except there will be ample spare modern AC ready EMUs such as 360s and 379s displaced from the likes of GA and Heathrow Connect by then which is why it will probably be even less likely than it was in 2014...

 

[Nymanic]

I don't see any official figures, but 750 cars over 90 trains seems to work out at:
- 60 x 10-car
- 30 x 5-car

Slightly larger image available here.

 

[class387]

By opening that thumbnail image in a new tab, I was able to source a much larger version of the image with some creative URL modification here

They extremely similar to the non-gangwayed Desiros, namely the 185s and 360s. Even down to the cab doors and window spacing they seem almost identical. There are only differences on the cab and the Aventra doors.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't see any official figures, but 750 cars over 90 trains seems to work out at:
- 60 x 10-car
- 30 x 5-car

I think that's been the general understanding since March hasn't it? I think one of the railway mags has definitely used those figures.

 

[physics34]

I don't know how much is public domain but I know the RSSB are leading or about to start leading a project looking at seat comfort as it is widely acknowledged that to meet the current fire and other safety standards the seats are becoming rock hard.

Hopefully this project will be able to produce outcomes which do have a tangible output and maybe even in time for these trains, who knows.

Having seen the Stadler mock-ups (I'm yet to visit it but should be soon) the seats seem a little better than those on the 700s and latest Electrostars so hopefully there are alternatives but given that Bombardier seem to prefer these ironing boards I would have to guess that these will likely return...

Saying that, the current 455 seats aren't exactly a vision in comfort either.

Springs!

 

[hwl]

I don't see any official figures, but 750 cars over 90 trains seems to work out at:
- 60 x 10-car
- 30 x 5-car

Slightly larger image available here.

That is the only possible solution if you assume positive integer real numbers of units

 

[physics34]

Except there will be ample spare modern AC ready EMUs such as 360s and 379s displaced from the likes of GA and Heathrow Connect by then which is why it will probably be even less likely than it was in 2014...

Cor there really needs to be some kind of plan in place, there will be no room for all this stock.... unless stock such as the 317s and 455s go to scrap....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cor there really needs to be some kind of plan in place, there will be no room for all this stock.... unless stock such as the 317s and 455s go to scrap....

They are old. Scrapping most of the PEP and Mark 3 EMUs would be no bad thing.

 

[jopsuk]

note that the URL of the larger picture includes the words "Generic_Livery" so there's nothing to be concluded from the colour scheme.

 

[AventraFlex]

They are old. Scrapping most of the PEP and Mark 3 EMUs would be no bad thing.

Agreed, fond of those trains but their time is up. Though I'll admit, a part of me wanted Siemens to win the contract (though only for uniformity's sake - i.e. 444s, 450s, maybe an 'improved' variant of the 707 to replace the original), even though I happen to like Aventras (obviously). This aventra desgin to me looks good though, a lot better than the 345s, and I hope they make other variants. I like the fact that all these aventras look unique despite being the same train. Maybe another version for Southern to replace their 455s as well? Maybe send some 458s or 707s over there, or one of them to Southeastern? I like their 465s and 466s, but they're not looking so good nowadays...

All suggestions. Doubt it will happen though.

 

[hwl]

Cor there really needs to be some kind of plan in place, there will be no room for all this stock.... unless stock such as the 317s and 455s go to scrap....

Circa 55km of sidings needed to store the EMUs probably coming off lease in the next few years if they aren't scrapped (worst case assuming some don't get re-leased but they may still need short term storage if they do e.g. no 769 conversions outside Northern etc.). The scrap yards will probably struggle at times.

How much space to we have at the recently closed coal fired Power stations and their branches for example?

 

[Mordac]

Are impotent people also incontinent then?

The two can be together, yes!

 

[fgwrich]

They extremely similar to the non-gangwayed Desiros, namely the 185s and 360s. Even down to the cab doors and window spacing they seem almost identical. There are only differences on the cab and the Aventra doors.

I agree, at first I thought they'd photoshopped a Desiro City into a Bombardier unit. It is interesting to see if this is the final design, how Bombardier seem to be morphing themselves into a Siemens look-a-like. Even those lights look inspired by the Porsche/Siemens MX3000.

 

[Bungle965]

I agree, at first I thought they'd photoshopped a Desiro City into a Bombardier unit. It is interesting to see if this is the final design, how Bombardier seem to be morphing themselves into a Siemens look-a-like. Even those lights look inspired by the Porsche/Siemens MX3000.

Which seems to be adding fire to the argument then that Bombardier and Siemens are looking at a merger.
Sam