Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by pompeyfan, 20 Jun 2017.

  1. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    A couple of tight platforms length wise being the other space issue.
     
  2. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    To meet the specific passenger capacity and dwell time requirements of the DfT’s “southwestern” franchise specification. Which is not necessarily the same as any other routes. This requirement is the main reason why they are being introduced.
     
  3. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    DfT understanding also moved on in the interim and moved on again with the aborted SE specification. They know they oops'd up several on key details on Anglia stock.
     
  4. dctraindriver

    dctraindriver Member

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  5. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    It will, with the LNWR units running at 110 and the C2C only at 75 (albeit being rated for 100).
     
  6. Snow1964

    Snow1964 Member

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    Was a trade off between providing extra seats (and for an order of this size would have been quite easy to have built slightly longer carriages to fit more seats in) and keeping within an overall length. However as virtually every station on SWR network has had its platforms lengthened using modular parts, could easily have been specified couple of metres longer overall.

    I have forgotten, but I think the vehicles with cabs are marginally longer so possibly 2 5car units are longer than a 10car unit.
     
  7. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Most stations aren't a problem (those lengthened with the modular parts and with a sensible bit of excess length already but a handful (typically with bridges are problematic.)
    The short list of problems stations is some where on the thread some where most of the issues end up being signalling (including sighting) issues with no cheap / quick /easy solutions.

    I have forgotten, but I think the vehicles with cabs are marginally longer so possibly 2 5car units are longer than a 10car unit.[/QUOTE]
    Correct but by less than a metre though.
     
  8. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    The WMT Aventras will have the same cab profile, albeit with a gangway connection fitted.
     
  9. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    The Class 458 driving cars are 21m long against 20m for the intermediate cars.

    I think the issues are that the ITT specified maximum 20m cars and the space taken up by toilets requires squeezing in more seats somewhere.
     
  10. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Correct but by less than a metre though.[/QUOTE]
    Does the shortened cab provide any benefit for signal sighting at those problem stations? That may well have been something they considered.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 20 Oct 2019
  11. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    It's not just the size of the cab, but the layout that was problematic too.
     
  12. Malcolmffc

    Malcolmffc Member

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    And air conditioning. That’s why I can’t wait for the 455s to be replaced
     
  13. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The rest of us were talking about 707s...
     
  14. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    Does the shortened cab provide any benefit for signal sighting at those problem stations? That may well have been something they considered.[/QUOTE]
    A 10 car 458 is 203.7m long and has a restricted view through the small windscreen. If a 10 car 701 is no more than 200m long then with its much larger windscreen it's going to be a lot better for signal sighting, surely?
     
  15. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Almost certainly but 701s will operate routes that 458s do not, they have to be able to go pretty much everywhere within 40 miles of Waterloo, so if there were any cases where there'd be an issue, I'd expect them to come up.
     
  16. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    The main issues with the cabs on 701s were the ergonomics, the cramped ness and sighting of buffer stops etc I believe.
    Interestingly, I noticed the other day that when you compare a 450 to a 377, the cab depths are the same but there’s a metre of electrical Gibbins directly behind the drivers seat, something that doesn’t exist on a 377. Iirc that was part of the reason for smaller cab
     
  17. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    There is still a bit of electrical stuff behind the driver on every unit just traditionally less on Bombardier but the 701 design reduces this compared to the earlier Aventras. They had to find space elsewhere for the displaced electronics.
     
  18. DanielTheEMid

    DanielTheEMid Member

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    The seats would probably be KIEL as used in the class 720
     
  19. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    The images of the interior show ironing boards.
     
  20. TT-ONR-NRN

    TT-ONR-NRN On Moderation

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    Are there actually any images or do you mean the computer generated one from a year or so ago
     
  21. Ethano92

    Ethano92 Member

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    I understand there isn't the same urgency for new stock as other operators but wouldn't new trains be the perfect thing for SWR to show off to hopefully bring about some positive opinions and PR. SWR seems to have been very quiet about the 701s so far.
     
  22. NewSt

    NewSt Member

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    Erm ... no:

    [​IMG]
     
  23. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Kiel seats are a special 'concession' if you will arranged by Greater Anglia, they aren't going to become the norm for Aventra units. I don't know if it's been stated yet if the 730s will have them as that's another Abellio TOC, but I'm pretty certain it'll be ironing boards for at least the 701s, probably the c2c units too.
     
  24. NewSt

    NewSt Member

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    Class 730 interior mock-up images show Kiel seats.
     
  25. Ethano92

    Ethano92 Member

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    Although I don't doubt it will be ironing boards, why would they have removed the second half of seat grab handles, seems counter productive for a train that's supposed to have maximum standing capacity. From that mock up they'll be just as poor as Desiro cities for standee handle provision as Desiro cities except a few extra poles by the doors. TFL could teach them something.
     
  26. NewSt

    NewSt Member

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    They look worst than Desiro cities if that photo is the final spec. They’ve gone for the one piece hand grips as aposed to the one with the divider in the middle, the aisle looks to be smaller than the 707s, they haven’t installed any of the rubber loops from the ceiling for passengers to use and I don’t see how they’ll get past disability regulations with those grey centre poles in the vestibule.
     
  27. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The sidewalls look heavily sloped (like a Turbostar) rather than almost vertical as is norm for Aventras?
     
  28. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    Is it possible that everyone is looking too much into a 2 year old artists impression? I mean look at the CGI for the refurbished desiros.
     
  29. nlogax

    nlogax Established Member

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    Looking at GA's Aventra interiors I don't see any taper. Unless SWR are secretly planning on tilting their 701s on the curves between Battersea and Waterloo I would imagine they'll be no different.
     
  30. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Probably not, though of note is that Siemens have produced Desiros with vertical sides (most of them) and sloped sides (ScotRail 380s). Not sure why the difference.
     

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