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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

Goldfish62

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I imagine the IETs were still designed with having a Train Manager on-board the long distance services?
No, they were specified to be capable of DOO, as they are on Paddington - Oxford and on Lumo. The guard has no control over the PIS. No different from any recent trains, including the 707s.
 
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TEW

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No, they were specified to be capable of DOO, as they are on Paddington - Oxford and on Lumo. The guard has no control over the PIS. No different from any recent trains, including the 707s.
Guards controlled the PIS on 707s
 

Goldfish62

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My experience of SWR suburban guards is they tend to hide in back cabs and do nothing between stations.
Case in point - I've just been on a train, 2 x 450, guard locked the inter-unit gangway, no auto PIS and no manual announcements from the guard. You really wouldn't know the train had a guard!

Guards controlled the PIS on 707s
So how did they seemlessly move to driver control on SE?
 
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Guards are closing the doors currently at most stations

True but that was never the plan. The plan was, and still is I believe, for driver to open and close the doors.

Perhaps SWR were hoping for full DOO until the strikes happened around 2017 which caused a change of plan.
 

markle

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A few reflections after a journey today on a Shepperton via Wimbledon service:

- Overall I like them more than on my first ride back in Feb. Though that may be that I've just been deprived of 707s and subjected to crowding on 455s for too long now
- PIS still a bit buggy (missing Clapham Junction); passenger occupancy screen could do with recalibration - showed my carriage as red even though half the seats were empty
- Displays by the doors could very usefully display real-time connecting service information for the next station (i.e. departures, platform number). Happens in many European countries and feels like a real missed opportunity.
 

brooklynbound

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The 701 saga makes the front page of tomorrow's Telegraph. The story includes the line that SWR "says it aims to get 10 of the new trains into service within the next four months, once the companies 700-plus drivers have been trained on them."

 
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The 701 saga makes the front page of tomorrow's Telegraph. The story includes the line that SWR intends to have 10 units in service within 4 months.
Bit silly from the telegraph to have the windscreen problem as the main topic for the article. That was sorted out years ago. Just seems like a needless jab at the unions.
 

boiledbeans2

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Bit silly from the telegraph to have the windscreen problem as the main topic for the article. That was sorted out years ago. Just seems like a needless jab at the unions.
So how was the windscreen wiper problem resolved? A different design of wipers?
 

Elorith

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The 701 saga makes the front page of tomorrow's Telegraph. The story includes the line that SWR intends to have 10 units in service within 4 months.

Is that units or diagrams?

10 diagrams seems entirely possible, especially if there are going to be diagrams that only do one out and back trip.

When the 805s were initially brought in on the WCML, driving instructors and their trainees were being utilised to drive passengers services. Which both simultaenously mitigated the impact of releasing traincrew on ability to cover trains and provided 80x competent drivers which were in short supply. I'm sure SWR could probably do something similar.
 

Towers

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No, they were specified to be capable of DOO, as they are on Paddington - Oxford and on Lumo. The guard has no control over the PIS. No different from any recent trains, including the 707s.
Not the case; the guard is able to access the TMS on an IET to input the initial headcode and subsequently edit the calling pattern, as well as generate automatic announcements and screen displays. There is very little difference between the functionality available to the driver and in any other cab as far as PIS in concerned. Anyhow, we’re drifting off topic!
 
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leshuttle

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Finally had my first ride on one last night to Wimbledon.

First impressions, as other have commented, the acceleration is noticeably better, still feels an overall improvement. The carriage load count does seem oversensitive, reporting almost full for half occupancy. Being 180cm tall for me sitting opposite someone on a table seat, it felt uncomfortably too close and without spacers between seats, anyone sitting next to me probably would be spilling on to the aisle.
 

fandroid

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The wiper issue features in today's Times too. Could someone spell out please when it was resolved as I would like to set the record straight in their Comments section.
 

yorkie

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Just a gentle reminder that forum rules require that when referring to anything from an external source, we do ask for a quote from the source, as well as a hyperlink (wherever possible) and comment. Thanks.
 

Carlisle

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Just seems like a needless jab at the unions.
Or just another observation of how easily the railway’s disrupted by initiating a dispute of some kind compared perhaps to the recent job losses at Port Talbot where the majority probably wish their union had a bit.more power.
 
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Samzino

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The Times article https://www.thetimes.com/article/2d...1?shareToken=cf9ddec942652dec4c73594d4ee68269.

The headline is:
Windscreen wiper dispute with union stalled £1bn trains.

An SWR spokesperson is quoted as saying that the wiper dispute was resolved as part of the 15% pay deal.

It mentioned "SWR Sources" rather than spokesperson/ representative which is quite different. Especially when the article is alluding to all the delays being caused by a single wiper induced issue, raised by the Union of which they mention it went away with some dosh.
 

MotCO

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someone post the full telegraph article please.

New £1bn fleet of trains left idle after trade union objected to windscreen wipers​


South Western Railway’s modern Arterio trains have been stuck in storage for years because of dispute and technical issues

02 October 2024 4:41pm BST



A £1 billion fleet of commuter trains has been left idle in storage for years after trade unions objected to the size of their windscreen wipers.
Ninety Arterio trains were bought for South Western Railway (SWR) to replace 40-year-old ex-British Rail carriages that are still in use on commuter lines out of London Waterloo.
However, the Derby-built fleet has been delayed from entering full passenger service for years, partly because train drivers’ trade union Aslef raised objections to the size of its windscreen wipers, The Telegraph can disclose.
Union reps claimed the wipers were so big that they blocked drivers’ views of the trackside signals used to tell trains when to stop and go.
The Arterio train has one of the largest windscreens of any modern UK train, with other designs (such as the Siemens Desiro also used by SWR) restricting the driver to a small side window so a connecting gangway and door can be fitted beside him.
Problems with couplers used to connect the trains together, electrical traction equipment and even cab doors that “proved difficult to open” have also delayed the Arterios’ entry into use, according to Rail magazine.



SWR has acknowledged the flaws and says it aims to get 10 of the new trains into service within the next four months, once the company’s 700-plus drivers have been trained on them.
Aslef is said by SWR sources to have dropped its objections to the trains as part of a deal for a 15 per cent pay rise with Louise Haigh, the Transport Secretary, earlier in 2024.
SWR is only running two Arterios every day out of London Waterloo despite promising to have all of them operational years ago.
A spokesman said: “As is well documented, introducing the Arterios has been a major and complex project, introducing both a new fleet and method of operation, while facing extensive production and software issues and all against a backdrop of Covid and industry recovery.”
Gareth Dennis, a railways expert, said: “From a software perspective, it has become more and more difficult for Derby to create a train that works within a reasonable timescale.”
Flaws and union intransigence both contributed to the delays to the Arterios’ entry to service, which was scheduled for 2020 when the trains were ordered in 2017.

‘Not fit for purpose’​

Most of the Arterio fleet is now stored in depots around the country, such as a vast railyard at Eastleigh, Hants, instead of being driven on commuter services.
And rather than travelling on the modern air-conditioned vehicles, SWR passengers are instead crammed into trains so old that the company even repainted one in heritage British Rail livery to celebrate its 40th birthday.
Sources within SWR admit the first Arterios received from Alstom, the manufacturers, were “not fit for purpose”, with some having to be sent back to be reworked.
An insider said: “There was a lot of production line disruption during Covid.
“It took a long time to get the unions to agree to a new method of working as well.”
The SWR spokesman added: “Our first train entered customer service earlier this year and, following good progress on training colleagues and the trains performing well, we are now expanding the phased rollout of the 90-strong fleet, as evidenced by the new service to Shepperton this week.
“This is an important milestone on the Arterio programme and another step toward the full rollout of the fleet of 90 Arterio trains that are set to transform capacity and comfort on SWR’s suburban network.
“We’re looking forward to introducing more Arterio services and will be sharing the wider rollout plan in due course.”
Both Aslef and Alstom were contacted for comment.
 

43066

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No, they were specified to be capable of DOO, as they are on Paddington - Oxford and on Lumo. The guard has no control over the PIS. No different from any recent trains, including the 707s.

This will depend on stock. The Desiro stock I sign was designed for DOO and needs a driver’s key in the desk to operate the PIS. AIUI there’s no way for the guards to do anything with it.

However other “intercity” stock types (including 8XXs) generally have guard mode on the TMS that can be activated from cabs and other points on the train, and used to edit seat reservations, PIS etc.

Or simply another observation of how easy it is to disrupt the railway by initiating a dispute of some type compared perhaps to the recent job losses at Port Talbot where the majority of the public probably wish their union had a bit more power .

Well no, if you read it, that isn’t what the article is about at all. It initially focusses on one small aspect of the 701 rollout (the wider problems with which are extensive and date back to 2019) and falsely conflates it with the recent national pay dispute. That is entirely intentional, of course. It’s designed to appeal to a target audience who feel most comfortable blaming the railway’s problems on the unions.

It mentioned "SWR Sources" rather than spokesperson/ representative which is quite different. Especially when the article is alluding to all the delays being caused by a single wiper induced issue, raised by the Union of which they mention it went away with some dosh.

Indeed. It’s cleverly written to mislead a casual reader, and appeal to the prejudices of the target audience, without actually stating an untruth.
 
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