Aventras and door issues. A match made in heaven, apparently. I've heard 720s have the same issue, so do many of the other fleets. Why it takes such a long time to solve a problem like this confuses me since I've been hearing about it for years701037 left Waterloo 10 late on 2U49 after apparently experiencing door issues of some kind
The 345s have had door issues ever since they were introduced. Not ideal, but it just has to be managedAventras and door issues. A match made in heaven, apparently. I've heard 720s have the same issue, so do many of the other fleets. Why it takes such a long time to solve a problem like this confuses me since I've been hearing about it for years
Back in the day when a problem came up there would be a plan put in place to solve it....The 345s have had door issues ever since they were introduced. Not ideal, but it just has to be managed
I think you'll find that various trains have had ongoing troublesome issues through the years.Back in the day when a problem came up there would be a plan put in place to solve it....
Yes, but as trains become more and more complex and delicate, their problems also escalate.I think you'll find that various trains have had ongoing troublesome issues through the years.
Very true.Yes, but as trains become more and more complex and delicate, their problems also escalate.
And they are also the kind which can't be fixed by hitting it with a hammer!Yes, but as trains become more and more complex and delicate, their problems also escalate.
I still think the Aventras should have gone for sliding doors like Thameslink's Class 700s. As well as opening and closing quicker, it appears they may also have been quicker to get 701s into service.The 345s have had door issues ever since they were introduced. Not ideal, but it just has to be managed
All this just shows the shocking state of our mainstream media. Total silence on the issue for years and they only wake up once the trains actually start being introduced. Pathetic!So according to this headline we're all wrong and the real reason for the units not being used is
Oh don't worry, I'm sure Alstom will put out a press release to highlight the many software issues that delayed their introductionAll this just shows the shocking state of our mainstream media. Total silence on the issue for years and they only wake once the trains actually start being introduced. Pathetic!
Was reported back in June 2023All this just shows the shocking state of our mainstream media. Total silence on the issue for years and they only wake up once the trains actually start being introduced. Pathetic!
Part of the problem is SWR had specified shorter 20m trains rather than 23m which caused cab problems, and presumably now rectifiedSWR said the delay was partly due to the impact of Covid-19. However, it acknowledged serious issues with the trains' software.
The train drivers' union ASLEF previously reported problems with door obstacle detectors, as well as the coupling process, faulty windscreen wipers and cab doors that were difficult to open
BBC local news. Then others pick up on it over a year later!Was reported back in June 2023
First of £1bn Arterio trains set to be four years late
South Western Railway's high-capacity trains are expected to enter service at the end of the year.www.bbc.com
Also earlier in the thread Alstom had outsourced software to reduce costs, which did not help.
Good train control software is important, but Alstom moved development to IndiaThe 701s were already in production when Alstom took over Bombardier Transportation in January 2021. Alstom may have struggled to fix the problems on the 701s, but they did not cause them.
Bombardier moved development to India. Alstom just took that over when they bought out the company.Alstom moved development to India
The ex Alstom part of the combined Alstom does a lot of its software in SE Europe in comparison.Bombardier moved development to India. Alstom just took that over when they bought out the company.
I take back what I was saying. Mass cancellations on the Reading line today "due to a shortage of drivers". I also notice last week that the Camberley line evening services were decimated by cancellations.It's weekends and evenings that have been suffering the most recently.
Mass?I take back what I was saying. Mass cancellations on the Reading line today "due to a shortage of drivers". I also notice last week that the Camberley line evening services were decimated by cancellations.
What is it with these forums that someone always wants to have an argument about absolutely everything?Mass?
I can see 2 cancelled services in each direction all day.
Hardly the definition of Mass cancellations.
It’s not an argument, mearly an observation from RTT, which, as per your list above now includes the 09:39, but not the later 2.What is it with these forums that someone always wants to have an argument about absolutely everything?
Cancellations towards Waterloo:
0609, 0909, 0939, 1339, 1439.
SWR have ticket acceptance in place on alternative routes.
Well if you look on Journeycheck.com and the SWR website you'll see the actual picture, the one which passengers actually experience.It’s not an argument, mearly an observation from RTT, which, as per your list above now includes the 09:39, but not the later 2.
Anyway, we are deviating from the point of this thread which is to do with 701s, not SWR cancellations.
And it is to do with the 701s. Further back in the thread it was mentioned that there were currently only 4 drivers per training session and @Bigfoot mentioned that driver shortages were having an impact without taking this training into account.
So my next question, beforehand we got diverted into the definition of "mass" was going to be is whether today's cancellations are due to the number of drivers in training being increased, or more worryingly, is it irrespective of that?
The shortage is all very confusing to me because it appears that SWR are only running 70-80% of the trains of 5 years ago, (not sure of exact percentage), so unless about a quarter of their drivers have retired or left, and none of these have been replaced, it is not clear why they are allegedly so short of drivers now.
I realise that the practical part is limited by number of driver trainers, but the theory/classroom part of the training is more governed by size of lecture hall and how many staff are available to be booked on the course.
It sort of feels to me that the excuse of lack of drivers is covering up something, because combined with the heavily thinned out service suggests it's not 100% of the picture,
From memory I think it has been said there is approx 780 SWR suburban drivers. ORR data shows SWR are running about 75-80% of the trains of 5 years ago (some lines have seen frequency halved). Applying bit of simple maths suggests that 5 years ago, 100/77.5 x 780 is roughly 1000.
So unless they have offloaded about 200 drivers in 5 years, then on paper, there are lots of spare drivers which could be training. The only limiting factor appears to be lack of trainers.
A snapshot of bald numbers from five years ago tells us nothing, as we don’t know how many have joined and left in the intervening period! Since then industry wide there have been a lot of retirements through Covid (ageing workforce), plus drastically slowed down trainee recruitment and training. Plus the complexities of diagramming mean it isn’t as simple as saying X% change in driver numbers corresponds to Y% change in services that can run - there are various other factors so the picture is more complex.
As noted above SWR were much more recently unable to run a full service during a driver overtime ban, which suggests they’re currently/very recently comparatively worse off than SE from a driver crewing point of view. Training capacity will be a massive issue as well, of course, as the same people involved in training on the new fleet will also be involved in new driver training, ongoing competency assessments for the existing driver population etc.