Yes, there is a requirement for 4 per sq m standing in the 701s. The 707s and converted SWT 455s were also intended to be classed as 4 per sq m, but DfT had re-assessed them as not suitable for that by the time the franchise ITT was issued, which is almost certainly the main reason the 707s are being replaced.
It isn't ridiculous it really helps with both standing capacity and dwell times. One key reason is you can operate more services with the same amount of stock (The RMT not picking up on SWR recent messages on this). As passenger loadings have increased dwell time have gone up substantially and this needs to be addressed else the number of services through the busiest points would have to be reduced (e.g. Vauxhall in the morning peak is the limiting factor on SWML stoppers.)
They then realised that you needed to be able to hold on at 4pax/sqm and also move around at stations to let people off or the dwell times increase.
At least Aventra have the underfloor heating option so not need for intrustuive duct for heating.
Yes, it all adds up doesn't it...
In theory at least, and SWR are certainly reliant on it all coming in to place. A lot of effort has clearly gone in to the 701 project but I worry that whilst it all looks great on paper, it may not be quite as successful as hoped in real life.
The 707s are certainly the fastest accelerating third rail units I've been on. I wonder what they'd be like if they weren't "underpowered"!
Well it would have been just as difficult to compare a 707 to a 345 on overhead right? Considering both 701 and 707 wont ever operate in passenger service that way?
Lucky if you get 55% in most 450s. The 444s around the 75% mark now.
The acceleration of a 458 is dismal, probably worse than a 455, so I certainly expect the 701s will be significantly better.
That would make sense if you think about it. It has already been mentioned that the 'flatter' cabs are to ensure that door positions are in the same place for 2 x 5-car 701 as 1 x 10-car 701. As each 5-car will have an accessible toilet fitting two in the 10-car ensures that the accessible spaces are going to be in the same place whether it's 2 x 5-car 701 or 1 x 10-car, which makes it easier for passengers and staff to know where to locate themselves.
I thought as much. Plus considering as I think was mentioned earlier in the thread, they will start work on the reading lines first which should be interesting considering they are mainly 458 operated as far as I know?
As someone that's used SWR and GA a fair amount each, I would disagree with you there, but that's outside the scope of this thread. No TOC is a saint, but reacting to the labels some attach to them won't ever achieve anything. You won't change the mind of someone who's been offput by too many bad experiences from a particular operator!
Even after de-rating to 75? that seems odd.
If anything, since they've been extended and now have two trailer coaches to drag around I'm sure they're worse than before.
A bit off-topic here but the extra vehicles were motored? I'm aware they were derated to reduce overheating issues, but you would have thought that would have resulted in at least some acceleration improvement. Perhaps the overheating issue was so severe (or degradation discovered during the refurbishment process) that they are now derated in maximum power output to prolong their lifespan.
All the extra vehicles were trailers regardless of what they were in a 460 set - some motor cars were de-motored as a result.
The extra vehicles were all trailers - there wasn't enough traction gear to have motors on all the 5th cars and they wanted a uniform fleet.
A quick bit of fact checking by me:
