Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by pompeyfan, 20 Jun 2017.

  1. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    Yep front end much better than the 345s and 710s...
     
  2. WWTownEnth

    WWTownEnth Member

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    One other thing the article in Today’s Railways mentioned was that there is an option on two further 10 car units. It said that this was unlikely to be exercised, however. It will be interesting to see how that plays out because the numbers do seem very tight, given the service increases.
     
  3. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    But 450s are software throttled back to 52% of their capability on dc or 350s 75% on ac.

    The aventra traction motors are more powerful than the other motors too.
     
  4. Snow1964

    Snow1964 Member

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    As the 701s will not operate as 12 car they may get a different power restriction. It’s to do with maximum Amps to be drawn.

    The 444 have same motors as 450s but are allowed to draw more as will only ever operate as max 2 units coupled

    I am not sure what current rules are, but I remember seeing in a book a graph of substation temperature (from decades ago) and how the transformers heat up as a train passes, then cools before next one. By end of rush hour were a lot warmer as cooling time reduced.

    In theory trains can draw virtually infinite power if unrestricted, the limitations are to stop it getting too hot and melting the insulation of cables.

    The inner suburban substations were replaced a few years ago and voltage changed to nearer 800v at supply (the LSWR had equipped them at 660v, and just 600v on earliest sections). So could get about same power with about 20% fewer amps.

    Unrestricted sections used to be nominal 4500 amps, but I think some areas were re-equipped for 6000 amps. Although of course the restriction will be the lowest until the weakest section is brought upto standard. Remember most substations cover pair of tracks so could have multiple trains drawing power together which complicates their sizing
     
  5. Prestige15

    Prestige15 Member

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    Heres a video of a class 701 on test inculding at its top speed

     
  6. Pete_uk

    Pete_uk Member

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    That's one way of putting barriers down I suppose...
     
  7. mightyena

    mightyena Member

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    I guess always just assumed it was because a 444 has a lower percentage of powered axles compared to a 450, and that they could draw more in order to get roughly similar performance. Given that the two fleets are somewhat interoperable (As far as I'm aware it's possible, if unlikely, that anywhere a 444 is diagrammed, a 450 could turn up or vice versa. Not to mention the 444+450 combos), it would make sense for them to have similar acceleration.
     
  8. tasky

    tasky Member

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    I suppose there's now a chance these trains will never have their SWR decals applied, if the franchise collapses before delivery.
     
  9. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    Isnt SWR one of DfTs long term brands, and the colour scheme isn’t First house colours is it??
     
  10. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Yes, part of the new deal...
     
  11. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Yes I imagine the livery will remain the same but the logo applied might be different.
     
  12. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    DfT have explicitly stated that the LNER and EMR brands will stay irrespective of franchise holder. They also planned the same for South Eastern Railway and encouraged bidders to develop a transferable brand for South Western, hence SWR.

    I don't see the brand changing. There are more pressing things to sort out with the franchise.
     
  13. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Quite, and one of the reason for transferable brands so less distraction.
     
  14. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    I'm just surprised that there are still so many enthusiasts who aren't aware of DfT's transferable brands policy.
     
  15. dorsetdesiro

    dorsetdesiro Member

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    Agreed, the small "A First and MTR company" wording to be replaced by something like "operated by DfT or OLR". Like the same & unchanged ScotRail livery having its small FirstGroup logo or wording replaced by Abellio's and it will again in few years time.

    What about Avanti West Coast? This seems like a joint First & Trenitalia idea instead of DfT which the latter probably would choose LMS, it is a bit surprising that the DfT allowed a name like AWC to go ahead. Would it still be AWC in the future if another operator (if they're not Italian) takes over?

    Then again, I realised the "Greater Anglia" name actually was specified by DfT as it wasn't chosen by Abellio. "Great Eastern Railway" or "Great Anglian Railway" I would've thought to be more like DfT's thing.

    Sorry to go OT...
     
  16. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    A shame they couldn't have kept the previous "blue" livery as the "standard" livery for SWR as it was far more attractive, but I guess it was considered too "Stagecoachy"
     
  17. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    Other brands which won't be going anywhere are Merseyrail, Transport for Wales, West Midlands Railway, London North Western Railway.

    Arrghh, too OT. Back to the 701s...
     
  18. tasky

    tasky Member

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    Yes, the current logo is a bit idiosyncratic, will be interesting to see if that survives
     
  19. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    It’s all about the traction supply conditions on the routes in the peaks when most trains are at full length for multiple working. The max current allowed ‘per train’ is designed around the 12.450, which will have 6 motored carriages in the whole consist. But the 444 equivalent max length, 10.444, only has 4 motored carriages. It is still allowed to draw a similar total current to the 12.450 to have equal performance.
     
  20. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 On Moderation

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    Well its bombardier after all. Its far easier and cost saving to have similar set ups. It doesn’t mean much crew wise as they still need training but its not surprising
     
  21. Bessie

    Bessie Member

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    I was on a couple of class 458 Waterloo-Reading services yesterday and noticed that the units had had a deep external clean, both had very clean and shiny yellow ends. Maybe these were planned but could it also mean SWR think they will remain in service a little longer, aka 701 delivery is delayed still further.
     
  22. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The revised aim is to get the 8car 455 services up to 10car 701 and provide extra capacity first before any 5car stock starts to leave
     
  23. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Shame they haven't bothered to address other issues like some of the graffiti tags which have been around for weeks. Or, indeed, things like blown window seals, especially on the windows with the emergency opening hoppers at the top. These are now commonplace with some now getting water ingress with the resulting "fishtank" between the two window panes. This is a particularly disgusting example:
    458 fishtank.jpg
     
  24. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    Some of the 458s have had a similar external clean. I think it's just an effort to make the fleet look more presentable.
     
  25. mpb56125

    mpb56125 Member

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  26. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    While I do agree with you that it's disgusting and does show a sad lack of care and attention, some of those "fishtank" windows can be a little amusing on a long and dull journey. I had a Voyager back a few weeks ago and the added window wave effect did raise a smile or two. I did even tweet a video of it to XC who, somewhat unsurprisingly wasn't that bothered.
     
  27. Roger B

    Roger B Member

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    Great fots. Gotta say Aventras look so much better with a yellow / orange front - those for TfL Crossrail / Elizabeth Line just look washed out. I think the bright front makes them look sharper, more modern, more zippy (and no, I'm not making any reference to a character from Rainbow, and would be grateful in no-one else did either).
     
    Last edited: 12 Feb 2020
  28. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    The LO ones do have an orange front...

    Note also the SWR cab design is different.
     
  29. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Although Bombardier have bungled the Aventra introduction thus far.

    I’ll get me coat......
     
  30. JamesC357

    JamesC357 Member

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    Anyone else think the front of the 701 looks like an angry wasp? I like it!
     

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