Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[hwl]

Latest report is that from first unit into service (notably, no date given for that!) it'll be 2 years for full fleet replacement, so less than 1 a week on average

https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1278628070321197057

Driver training is probably a big headache / limiting factor too not just the stock...

DfT may also have been involved and having some of the new LNR units not being delayed even further might be part of things. e.g. LNR not following on after Anglia /SWR but in parallel later on.

 

[Warrior2852]

According to this tweet (https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1278637146329567233?s=20), they’re still maintaining that it’s later this year for the first units in service. The man also says that the first units will be on the Reading line, is this the first (public) statement from SWR about introduction order? Are they trying to get rid of the 458s first? I would have thought increasing the remaining 8 coach services to 10 coaches would be a priority (or are they doing some convoluted swaps of 455s and other units to do both at the same time?)

 

[theironroad]

Latest report is that from first unit into service (notably, no date given for that!) it'll be 2 years for full fleet replacement, so less than 1 a week on average

https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1278628070321197057

Yes, that did rather surprise me unless he (assuming this was the video from the engineering director ) was just hedging his bets. As no swr drivers have been trained yet, and indeed the first unit hasn't been handed over from bombardier yet and swr staff aren't allowed unaccompanied together with covid restrictions mean they won't be fully introduced until almost franchise end (obviously, the franchise system may be terminated soon anyway....) A !of of unknowns, but good to at least see them arriving on swr metals.

 

[Bigfoot]

According to this tweet (https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1278637146329567233?s=20), they’re still maintaining that it’s later this year for the first units in service. The man also says that the first units will be on the Reading line, is this the first (public) statement from SWR about introduction order? Are they trying to get rid of the 458s first? I would have thought increasing the remaining 8 coach services to 10 coaches would be a priority (or are they doing some convoluted swaps of 455s and other units to do both at the same time?)

It has been known for some time now that the current plan is 458s to go first.

 

[RealTrains07]

According to this tweet (https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1278637146329567233?s=20), they’re still maintaining that it’s later this year for the first units in service. The man also says that the first units will be on the Reading line, is this the first (public) statement from SWR about introduction order? Are they trying to get rid of the 458s first? I would have thought increasing the remaining 8 coach services to 10 coaches would be a priority (or are they doing some convoluted swaps of 455s and other units to do both at the same time?)

701s going on the reading line first will be good as it releases even more 450s to strengthen the existing diagrams

 

[Ethano92]

It has been known for some time now that the current plan is 458s to go first.

There have been many different plans though including 458s going first, 8 coach 455 diagrams going first for that instant capacity boost which probably isn't needed anymore. I suppose now the 707s are the only fleet with somewhere to go we may see them leave first or alongside 458s.

Either way the current situation has clearly halted their plans of an accelerated entry into service and understandably so I suppose.

 

[theironroad]

Considering 707s have a home waiting and 458s at least have toilets and air con, I'm a little surprised that they don't start on the 455/6 as lack of ac is a massive issue in summer these days. Maybe 458 lease is due soon and containing 701s to reading initially would reduce the number of depots that need training at the off.

 

[sharpley]

Think a 701 was delivered to Old Dalby earlier today. Saw a 5 car unit with similar paint job but no markings being dragged out of Melton Mowbray towards the test track. Wasnt particularly close so could be mistaken.

 

[Mikey C]

Considering 707s have a home waiting and 458s at least have toilets and air con, I'm a little surprised that they don't start on the 455/6 as lack of ac is a massive issue in summer these days. Maybe 458 lease is due soon and containing 701s to reading initially would reduce the number of depots that need training at the off.

By the time the 701s start arriving in numbers, the summer will be long gone...

 

[Goldfish62]

Maybe containing 701s to reading initially would reduce the number of depots that need training at the off.

I'm sure I read that as being the main reason for them going on the Reading line first.

 

[Kieran1990]

Friend of mine at SWR said the 707 are looking at going first due to them having a new home with 458’s shuffled into the Windsor line locals until enough 701’s are up and running but this just back room chat nothing confirmed

 

[Goldfish62]

Friend of mine at SWR said the 707 are looking at going first due to them having a new home with 458’s shuffled into the Windsor line locals until enough 701’s are up and running but this just back room chat nothing confirmed

If true it would make sense. 707s off first because they're needed elsewhere, 701s still on Readings first.

 

[Bigfoot]

Given that all staff literature that the company has produced for around a year has said the 458s are the first to go and the first route to be moved over to 701 will be readings. Throw in the additional fact that most of them spend the day going back and forth to reading, starting and finishing at wimbledon park, or clapham and driven by Wimbledon & Waterloo drivers this minimising the number of drivers required to have the knowledge intitally. Then on top there is clear comparison to the return of the 458 when they were lengthened to 5 cars. They were initially tested and introduced on readings for the very same above reasons.

But please don't let logic or fact get in the way of speculation.

 

[43096]

Given that all staff literature that the company has produced for around a year has said the 458s are the first to go and the first route to be moved over to 701 will be readings. Throw in the additional fact that most of them spend the day going back and forth to reading, starting and finishing at wimbledon park, or clapham and driven by Wimbledon & Waterloo drivers this minimising the number of drivers required to have the knowledge intitally. Then on top there is clear comparison to the return of the 458 when they were lengthened to 5 cars. They were initially tested and introduced on readings for the very same above reasons.

But please don't let logic or fact get in the way of speculation.

Except that the 458/5s were not initially introduced on the Readings. When they first came out they were used on Windsors and Hounslow loop services. The Reading line couldn’t take 10 car trains back then.

But please don’t let fact get in the way of your theory.

 

[Ethano92]

Given that all staff literature that the company has produced for around a year has said the 458s are the first to go and the first route to be moved over to 701 will be readings. Throw in the additional fact that most of them spend the day going back and forth to reading, starting and finishing at wimbledon park, or clapham and driven by Wimbledon & Waterloo drivers this minimising the number of drivers required to have the knowledge intitally. Then on top there is clear comparison to the return of the 458 when they were lengthened to 5 cars. They were initially tested and introduced on readings for the very same above reasons.

But please don't let logic or fact get in the way of speculation.

It's an open discussion, those with higher knowledge usually present it politely, no?... Anyway the plan for a while was 707s first until late last/early this year when it shifted to 455/6 first. This was also they time they expected 20 carriages to enter service a week and the full fleet to be introduced by mid 2021. Things have clearly changed (at least 2 year rollout) including the cascade of 707s to SE so I see it as perfectly reasonable to expect the only fleet that has a new home to be leaving first whether that turns out to be the case or not.

 

[spark001uk]

This is in the system for tomorrow (Thurs). To Eastleigh this time. If it runs.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01695/2020-07-16/detailed
.
Edit: doesn't look like it's going to run now.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Anyone know why it didn’t run? And when it might eventually move now?

 

[Euan Chong]

Has anyone got more information about the implementation of automatic braking and door opening? I can't find much about exactly when, where and how it will be introduced/

 

[Brissle Girl]

Reports in the specialist press that SWR has negotiated an increase in an option to purchase an additional 3, 10 car sets to 5 sets.

The interesting thing is that this option has to be exercised by the end of September, so why would they go the trouble of getting the option increased unless they intend to exercise it?

I was also initially puzzled as to why they don’t just negotiate a deal to buy 3 more than the option allows at the appropriate time, but I suspect that procurement rules would be more onerous in that situation, and increasing the option is a way to get around that.

 

[43096]

Reports in the specialist press that SWR has negotiated an increase in an option to purchase an additional 2, 10 car sets to 5 sets.

The interesting thing is that this option has to be exercised by the end of September, so why would they go the trouble of getting the option increased unless they intend to exercise it?

I was also initially puzzled as to why they don’t just negotiate a deal to buy 3 more than the option allows at the appropriate time, but I suspect that procurement rules would be more onerous in that situation, and increasing the option is a way to get around that.

That seems an odd decision, especially as the long term demand for London commuting is totally unknown.

 

[trainmania100]

Path in for Monday now,

Train 6X24 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd | Rail Record

Live train times and live updates for Train 6X24 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd | Rail Record

live.rail-record.co.uk

To Eastleigh rsmd
Locos from chaddesden the day before

 

[spark001uk]

Is this going to be a 5 car I wonder? Would make sense to have one of each at Eastleigh for initial testing?

 

[Goldfish62]

Has anyone got more information about the implementation of automatic braking and door opening? I can't find much about exactly when, where and how it will be introduced/

It's probably far too early for that. If timetables end up being thinned out due to a reduction in commuting it may well be that the function is never needed.

 

[theironroad]

It's probably far too early for that. If timetables end up being thinned out due to a reduction in commuting it may well be that the function is never needed.

Could well be the case.

The original intention was for it to be functional on the SWML from Surbiton inwards to Waterloo and on the Reading/Windsor lines from Richmond inwards.

Not sure if there was a timescale ever proposed or not. I do recall it was seen as a facility for the future rather than being in use from day 1.

 

[Malcolmffc]

That seems an odd decision, especially as the long term demand for London commuting is totally unknown.

could it be a way to replace the 442s?

 

[Fincra5]

could it be a way to replace the 442s?

I'm sure that would go down well with the Pompey Passengers... There isn't enough of them either. 5 10 cars doesn't match the number of 442s expected.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I'm sure that would go down well with the Pompey Passengers... There isn't enough of them either. 5 10 cars doesn't match the number of 442s expected.

Aren’t the 442s also written into the franchise obligations? Unless something has been agreed with the DfT I would be surprised.

 

[RealTrains07]

I'm sure that would go down well with the Pompey Passengers... There isn't enough of them either. 5 10 cars doesn't match the number of 442s expected.

I thought as metro style trains. The 701s wouldnt be suitable to run the long distance services?

 

[Snow1964]

Reports in the specialist press that SWR has negotiated an increase in an option to purchase an additional 3, 10 car sets to 5 sets.

The interesting thing is that this option has to be exercised by the end of September, so why would they go the trouble of getting the option increased unless they intend to exercise it?

I was also initially puzzled as to why they don’t just negotiate a deal to buy 3 more than the option allows at the appropriate time, but I suspect that procurement rules would be more onerous in that situation, and increasing the option is a way to get around that.

Regarding increasing option vs buying extra, it suggests the price is lower for the options. Also probably doesn’t need procurement rules as it uses main order.

My guess is the extra trains may be something to do with rumoured Heathrow-Chertsey-Guildford services. Aviation may be in the doldrums currently but presumably it would grow again in 3-5 years. There could be a massive change in where airport workers live in meantime.

 

[pompeyfan]

Aren’t the 442s also written into the franchise obligations? Unless something has been agreed with the DfT I would be surprised.

not quite, franchise is rumoured to originally state 23m, 2+2 3rd rail capable EMUs. It’s just a coincidence that the only stock that could be procured ‘quickly’ was the 442s. Technically with that specification the product family could be made as I believe the 720s are 26m body?

ABDO would have been needed had the December 18 timetable change happened, but that is in the past. At this rate you could probably get away with getting the guards to close the doors on the 701s .

in all seriousness though, are guards expected to learn how to do the doors on them, as with the 745s etc?