Thanks all for responses
5 of the displaced 450s go to the Guildford-Ascot Line which frees up 10 456s for strengthening 8-car 455 formations.
Didn't know that, thank you. Am sure they will see that as an improvement!
Also there are sometimes 8 car trains which are formed of a pair of 456's and a 455.
Agreed but then how will the 2x 456 be filled when the 456s need to join 455 pairs. Seems a big reshuffle will happen.
Remember the 456s have only recently arrived so they will not really be a loss when they get absorbed by pairs of 455s.
I doubt there will be too much of a surplus of 450s as they and the 444s are currently quite heavily used. As I understand it the 444s, particularly, are at the limit of what the service provision deal with Siemens allows and SWT can pay less by using the 444s and 450s less. That is why 450s appear on services that one might expect to see 444s on. Its almost like SWT need some 442s !.
Yes, 456s have only just arrived but they seem to be mostly used in diagrams now (e.g they took over Guildford -Ascot to support strengthening elsewhere + 3 are used on 10 car fasts from Surbiton). The fact that they are not sitting spare is shown by occasional short formations.
455s are also undergoing 2 programmes of work which mean severa units are out of action. There is the overhaul and PRM work at Bournemouth and the retractioning project too. Once these are completed 455s will be able to replace 2 456s in a 455+456+456 formation, with the freed up 456s being used to strengthen trains to 10-cars. You have 10 units from Guildford-Ascot, potentially 8 (4 pairs) replaced by 455s and 2 already used in 10-cars formation. That's 20 units, I'm not sure if there are any more diagrams than that?
Didn't think about 455 re tractioning/other current upgrades though so yes, that will help. 18 trains arrive at Waterloo in the suburban side between 8 and 9am meaning if there are only 20 456s going to be used (3 already used on fasts), it is only going to be peak hour and nothing else (assume 1.5hr/2hrs before that same set comes into Waterloo again, I.e. can only help once in the peak). As delays currently build from about 7.30am due to congestion there's still going to be issues it seems.
unless someone can work out where my numbers are wrong and they can do better than just 8-9am? Will also then be fun getting them in the exact right place for the evening peak hour.
Only other things I can think of are:
-458/5s take over the 3 10 car fasts from Surbiton which are currently 2x455+456, freeing up another 3.
-They steal some of the middle carriages from southern 455s when no one is looking. Refurbish then over the course of the next 3-5 years (swt contractors aren't the quickest). Stick them into 455s making extra slow 5 car 455s. Done. :roll::roll: yes, as above I basically have no idea still how it's going to work other than lots of changes... Interesting 18-24 months ahead...