Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[aleggatta]

An isolated transformer can't really cause any faults in any case.

However is susceptible to the various outside influences including physical damage and regular inspection to ensure it doesn't fall off in traffic.

 

[Bigfoot]

Yet First has actually signed an order for far more Desiro coaches (1140) than Stagecoach (883 coaches).

Out of curiosity how many coaches did abellio tender for when they bid for the GA franchise? Could that have for seen a full fleet replacement when it seemed to be such a shock to the railway world? Or are these tenders for minimum orders.?

 

[E_Reeves]

Just seen my first 707 in Reading - pretty impressive!

 

[WWTownEnth]

Does anyone know the date on which the next units will be delivered?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there a schedule that they're working to as to which routes get used for testing or is it just a case of where there's a free path on a suitable route when they want to test one?

 

[spark001uk]

Not sure, but just spotted another path added: 5Q11 Clapham Yard - Petersfield (via Staines), returning 5Q14 Petersfield - Waterloo (via Staines).

 

[RichardBateman]

As I am visiting London this week-end, can anyone tell which 707 units are in Clapham Yard at the moment. Thank You.

 

[spark001uk]

As I am visiting London this week-end, can anyone tell which 707 units are in Clapham Yard at the moment. Thank You.

Units 707001 to 707006 are all based at Clapham Yard at the moment, and currently 003 and 005 are back and forth out on test/training as a pair, as are 004 and 006. Units 001 and 002 are (I believe) still in the yard.

 

[AM9]

However is susceptible to the various outside influences including physical damage and regular inspection to ensure it doesn't fall off in traffic.

It's no more likely to 'fall off' than the concrete transformer substitute weights fitted to some EMUs that allow a common suspension configuration.

 

[RichardBateman]

Units 707001 to 707006 are all based at Clapham Yard at the moment, and currently 003 and 005 are back and forth out on test/training as a pair, as are 004 and 006. Units 001 and 002 are (I believe) still in the yard.

Thanks I will be there on saturday

 

[janahan]

As a person who commutes from Feltham to London(using both Winsor and reading trains), I am both optimistic and pessimistic about the introduction of these trains.

Optimistic because on the Windsor trains they will replace the 458/5, which frankly (as a passenger) seem really unreliable since the conversion.

<RANT>
For the past year or so, I have noticed mainly issues with the 458/5, door issues (doors sometimes not opening, or closing), frequent Air Conditioning issues, which during the summer leaves carriages so hot, they impossible to travel in. Seats are really looking worse for wear,and other things like strange noises, creaks that do not give much confidence that the train is going to make it to the destination.

I am sure the 458/0s were a lot better before this conversion.

And that is where my pessimism comes in as the 458/5's are going to replace the 450's on the Reading route, therefore I will still have to experience them, and probably more so as I tend to choose the fast Reading services over the semi fast Windsor ones.
</RANT>

 

[spark001uk]

I am sure the 458/0s were a lot better before this conversion.

They were good after the conversion. But not for long. After their deployment on Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow Loop/Kingston Loop, they quickly got trashed. Toilets wrecked, various gibberish inscribed on windows, window rubbers pulled out, seats busted, all manner of liquids all over the floors, general abuse really.

I remember getting the /0 units to Reading and thinking how nice they were inside. Not now.

(Matter of fact just got off one earlier, there was a load of rubbish chucked in the toilet pan, (unreadable) inscriptions scratched into the window I was sat at, sticky floor, and no window rubber.)

 

[fairysdad]

Units 707001 to 707006 are all based at Clapham Yard at the moment, and currently 003 and 005 are back and forth out on test/training as a pair, as are 004 and 006. Units 001 and 002 are (I believe) still in the yard.

Saw 004 around 1520 this afternoon (23 Feb) heading through Vauxhall towards Waterloo. Looked like it was on its own and not coupled to another unit. Can't seem to see it on RTT though :?

 

[janahan]

They were good after the conversion. But not for long. After their deployment on Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow Loop/Kingston Loop, they quickly got trashed....

Noted that being on the loop lines is not the kindest thing to a modern train. However those issues are easily resolved by cleaning etc. However my biggest issues some of which I mentioned on my original post have little to do with the care or lack of care associated with passengers that patronise the trains.

Breaking down doors, sometimes they don't open, and sometimes they don't close properly, once I was on a train stuck at whitton for 20mins whilst the driver repeatedly tried to close the doors and possibly get an interlock. Doors being locked out is a sadly common occurrence.

The Air Conditioning issue was really serious last year. In the space of two months during summer I boarded 6 trains with faulty air conditioning and inside was worse than a sauna, and some passengers really looked poorly. In some cases the guard came to the carriage and used the key to open the hopper windows (on an ex 458/0 as the 460s do not have any openable windows, however I have personally never experienced an ex 460 with failed air conditioning). In one case the guard refused to open the hopper windows, and some passenger were pretty close to feinting and many left the train, to either join another carraige or another train.

The ride quality has also diminished on these trains, with huge bumps as they pull off and other strange noises..

All I can say is that if these trains are going going to be transferred 'as is' to the Reading services, when the 707s come into service, there will be many, especially the more long distance passengers from Berkshire, who are going to be disappointed by what they see is a downgrade from the 450s currently there.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Long term does the Reading line get enough traffic all day that it could justify a future order of either 6 car or 12 car class 707s (but with bogs installed)?

 

[swt_passenger]

Long term does the Reading line get enough traffic all day that it could justify a future order of either 6 car or 12 car class 707s (but with bogs installed)?

Only in the extremely long term. As of now the platforms are being lengthened for 10 car, and they also intend to run 4 x 10 car trains per hour all day from Dec 2018, rather than the 2 x 8 car at the moment. So that's an increase of 150% capacity off peak.

I expect you'll see another 20 years of 458/5s before anything much changes.

 

[spark001uk]

Agreed, we'll be seeing the 458/5 on Reading line for quite some time yet. One of the main intentions of the 707's (other than increased suburban peak capacity) is to release 458/5's to Reading - in turn releasing a lot of 450's (14? units off the top of my head just in off-peak, plus several more in peak) which will then be used to strengthen mainline services.

--

All I can say is that if these trains are going going to be transferred 'as is' to the Reading services, when the 707s come into service, there will be many, especially the more long distance passengers from Berkshire, who are going to be disappointed by what they see is a downgrade from the 450s currently there.

Yes, especially if they don't sort out the problems you mentioned, plus the toilets - which seem to spend about 90% of their time either broken, or full (indicated by a flashing engaged sign). As you say, a good deep clean followed up with regular cleaning would be a good start.
As for the first class passengers, they will almost certainly see it as a downgrade; no internal door segregation, no curtains.

 

[TEW]

There are plug sockets on 458/5s in First Class, they're underneath and between the two seats.

 

[spark001uk]

There are plug sockets on 458/5s in First Class, they're underneath and between the two seats.

Ahhh so that's where they are! Noted and corrected.

Funny you should say that, I was on one only yesterday and a chap was wandering around with a phone charger in his hand looking for a power socket in first class, and never found them either!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There was a report on a Yahoogroup this morning of the "Boeings" being seen at Dolland's Moor; I assume these will be 707 007 and 707 008 on the way?

 

[GW43125]

Agreed, we'll be seeing the 458/5 on Reading line for quite some time yet. One of the main intentions of the 707's (other than increased suburban peak capacity) is to release 458/5's to Reading - in turn releasing a lot of 450's (14? units off the top of my head just in off-peak, plus several more in peak) which will then be used to strengthen mainline services.

--



Yes, especially if they don't sort out the problems you mentioned, plus the toilets - which seem to spend about 90% of their time either broken, or full (indicated by a flashing engaged sign). As you say, a good deep clean followed up with regular cleaning would be a good start.
As for the first class passengers, they will almost certainly see it as a downgrade; no internal door segregation, no curtains.

I believe the plans are to put the doors/curtains back-as for the bog issue, who knows if they'll ever get round to sorting that.

Also, I've heard there may be some 707s running on the Weybridge services, if so this would free up a couple more 450s for the mainline. Though whether this happens in practice is another thing as a little bit of amateur maths suggests that a 4tph Windsor service would use most of the 30 units.

 

[GW43125]

[deleted] due to double post

 

[absolutelymilk]

There was a report on a Yahoogroup this morning of the "Boeings" being seen at Dolland's Moor; I assume these will be 707 007 and 707 008 on the way?

Why are they called Boeings?

 

[Domh245]

I guess after the Boeing 707

 

[pompeyfan]

The door problem is a well known issue but tricky to fix, the ASDO on the 458 works on a carriage by carriage basis, (as apposed to how the Desiro work), and when a carriage antenna goes over the beacon the TMS registers to open said carriage. However for some reason intermediate coaches don't always pick up the beacon. This is further compounded by the fact that the orange hazard lights still illuminate, so as far as the guard is aware all doors should open.

 

[Goldfish62]

I believe the plans are to put the doors/curtains back-as for the bog issue, who knows if they'll ever get round to sorting that.

Also, I've heard there may be some 707s running on the Weybridge services, if so this would free up a couple more 450s for the mainline. Though whether this happens in practice is another thing as a little bit of amateur maths suggests that a 4tph Windsor service would use most of the 30 units.

It's always been the plan to use them to Weybridge. The term Windsor lines includes the Hounslow loop and the Chertsey line.

By my calcs 4tph to Windsor with all trains 10 cars would require 20 units. However, even with the current frequencies there won't be enough units to go round so expect some diagrams to remain as 458/5 and consequently some Reading diagrams to remain as 450. I recall this was confirmed either on this thread or a related one.

 

[Class455]

There was a report on a Yahoogroup this morning of the "Boeings" being seen at Dolland's Moor; I assume these will be 707 007 and 707 008 on the way?

Two 47's are currently stabled at Clapham Yard so these must've come through

 

[spark001uk]

Two 47's are currently stabled at Clapham Yard so these must've come through

Were they with or near some wagons? (usually for brake force)

Perhaps [RichardBateman] will let us know later, as he planned on going there today.

 

[Class455]

Were they with or near some wagons? (usually for brake force)

Perhaps [RichardBateman] will let us know later, as he planned on going there today.

Yes they did have some wagons with them.

 

[spark001uk]

707007 and 707008 are reported at Clapham, side by side in the shed. (Not my spot).