Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[TEW]

Any pictures of the interior?

Same interior as the 700s but in the SWT colour scheme. Red seats and orange grab handles. Power sockets and WiFi will also be fitted.

 

[Class377/5]

Any pictures of the interior?

The Facebook Desiro City group has plenty of photos

https://www.facebook.com/groups/rtthameslink700/

 

[jopsuk]

I had been wondering whether it would be in red or blue livery, but expected red owing to its suburban configuration.

They were red in the pictures when SWT first put out a press release about the order.

They will, as with other SWT inner suburban (and the 70x for the Moorgate GN) have no first class and no toilet I'd assume?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

They were red in the pictures when SWT first put out a press release about the order.

They will, as with other SWT inner suburban (and the 70x for the Moorgate GN) have no first class and no toilet I'd assume?

They're also red on their way for testing in Germany.

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?4,7751376 (previously posted on this thread).

 

[Class377/5]

They were red in the pictures when SWT first put out a press release about the order.

They will, as with other SWT inner suburban (and the 70x for the Moorgate GN) have no first class and no toilet I'd assume?

No loos were announced when the order was placed. Don't think they will have first class, but like the 701 they will have wifi and plugs at seats.

 

[jopsuk]

are the Moorgate fleet officially 701 now or is that an inference?

 

[physics34]

i notice a few moans about the 707 seating already

 

[Class377/5]

are the Moorgate fleet officially 701 now or is that an inference?

Roger Ford has stated the class number. So unofficial but informed.
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i notice a few moans about the 707 seating already

I didn't find the 700 seats that bad while sitting in standard.

 

[randompixel]

i notice a few moans about the 707 seating already

I saw a few moans that it wasn't 2+3 seating so these trains would force more people to stand.

I don't think you can please everyone (anyone?)

 

[swt_passenger]

I saw a few moans that it wasn't 2+3 seating so these trains would force more people to stand.

I don't think you can please everyone (anyone?)

They do provide much more standing room, but to a first approximation they don't actually reduce the seating, compared to the current 458/5s. A simple calculation suggests that (as in the case of the 458 > 458/5 conversion) then 4 cars of 2+3 is approximately equal to 5 cars of 2+2.

Haven't they said that the seating layout will be generally 2+2 anyway, I mean no-one is expecting LO style longitudinal seats, and they should be similar density to SWT style 455s?

 

[Deepgreen]

Worryingly, as the seats appear to be the same ones as used in the 700s and the 5 car 377s, this is looking like an industry standard emerging - I say "worryingly" because they're horrible!

 

[bb21]

Worryingly, as the seats appear to be the same ones as used in the 700s and the 5 car 377s, this is looking like an industry standard emerging - I say "worryingly" because they're horrible!

As I mentioned earlier, this is not a completed version of a 707, but an altered Class 700, so understandably seats, etc, will be the same. It is there for display purposes only.

 

[Domh245]

As I mentioned earlier, this is not a completed version of a 707, but an altered Class 700, so understandably seats, etc, will be the same. It is there for display purposes only.

ahem.

Actually its a new build 707 mock up. The 707 along with the 700 and 701 are amended Desiro Cities (the trains family name).

Back to the mock up, it'll be there for a week.

It would make sense for seats to be the same however. No need for Siemens to have to faff around with mounting points or other such things

 

[bb21]

ahem.

I am only quoting from Christian Roth. You might want to moan at him if anything I said is wrong.

The seats may well end up the same, but I don't think this mock up reveals much on that front.

 

[hwl]

I am only quoting from Christian Roth. You might want to moan at him if anything I said is wrong.

The seats may well end up the same, but I don't think this mock up reveals much on that front.

Agreed the guys at the exhibition said the seat layout wasn't final but that the mounting system (entirely wall hung with no floor support) etc was. Improvements to grab rail etc also on the agenda (e.g possible 4 pole in the centre of the vestibule vs the current (700) twin pole etc. but no massive changes. They are anticipating higher standing levels than Thameslink.

It will be 2+2 with big vestibules, one of the questions is how big...
And where you put the wheelchair space etc.

 

[jon0844]

Agreed the guys at the exhibition said the seat layout wasn't final but that the mounting system (entirely wall hung with no floor support) etc was. Improvements to grab rail etc also on the agenda (e.g possible 4 pole in the centre of the vestibule vs the current (700) twin pole etc. but no massive changes. They are anticipating higher standing levels than Thameslink.

It will be 2+2 with big vestibules, one of the questions is how big...
And where you put the wheelchair space etc.

Just been to see it and have to say they've missed a trick. They can't show the sheer amount of space with such a tiny section. As such it felt cramped, and people were moaning.

A lady was angry there was no grab rails above the doors and I suggested that nobody should need to stand in front of the door as there should be room to move down, especially with open gangways, but of course this mock up hardly supported my view and she just mouthed off at me and said how cramped SWT train are and I obviously never use a train!

I hope that other commuters aren't going to think the same, or else it might have been better not to show it at all!

I did hear Thameslink has just got those wonderful new displays working inside, at last!

 

[RobShipway]

Just been to see it and have to say they've missed a trick. They can't show the sheer amount of space with such a tiny section. As such it felt cramped, and people were moaning.

A lady was angry there was no grab rails above the doors and I suggested that nobody should need to stand in front of the door as there should be room to move down, especially with open gangways, but of course this mock up hardly supported my view and she just mouthed off at me and said how cramped SWT train are and I obviously never use a train!

I hope that other commuters aren't going to think the same, or else it might have been better not to show it at all!

I did hear Thameslink has just got those wonderful new displays working inside, at last!

If it is still there, I am hoping to see to on Saturday when I pop into London.

 

[TEW]

As I mentioned earlier, this is not a completed version of a 707, but an altered Class 700, so understandably seats, etc, will be the same. It is there for display purposes only.

There are pictures in an SWT staff newsletter of the interior of a completed unit and the seats are the same as the 700s.

 

[hwl]

Just been to see it and have to say they've missed a trick. They can't show the sheer amount of space with such a tiny section. As such it felt cramped, and people were moaning.

A lady was angry there was no grab rails above the doors and I suggested that nobody should need to stand in front of the door as there should be room to move down, especially with open gangways, but of course this mock up hardly supported my view and she just mouthed off at me and said how cramped SWT train are and I obviously never use a train!

I hope that other commuters aren't going to think the same, or else it might have been better not to show it at all!

I did hear Thameslink has just got those wonderful new displays working inside, at last!

Everyone was positive (apart from the grey interior) when I was there this morning.

"A lady was angry there was no grab rails above the doors and I suggested that nobody should need to stand in front of the door as there should be room to move down, especially with open gangways,"

Neither of you have obviously ever travelled on SWT in the morning!
They can be so busy you can't board therefore grab handles near the doors are unnecessary as you can't physically move let alone fall over!

Again disappointing they could have bigger mock up.

Nice to see they got the passenger info screen "working".

 

[jon0844]

Everyone was positive (apart from the grey interior) when I was there this morning.

"A lady was angry there was no grab rails above the doors and I suggested that nobody should need to stand in front of the door as there should be room to move down, especially with open gangways,"

Neither of you have obviously ever travelled on SWT in the morning!
They can be so busy you can't board therefore grab handles near the doors are unnecessary as you can't physically move let alone fall over!

Again disappointing they could have bigger mock up.

Nice to see they got the passenger info screen "working".

Haha! I said that to her! Exactly that, namely if it's that crush loaded you wouldn't need to hold on to anything. She huffed off then, and I realised I probably shouldn't get involved!!

I still think the mock up doesn't do the trains justice at all. If people had seen that at ExCel then I'm sure we wouldn't have had such positive comments for the last year or two.

 

[swt_passenger]

Question 24 in this afternoon's web chat prompted the following answer:

Answer:
The class 458/5 (Juniper) fleet will resume working the Waterloo to Reading service when our new 707 fleet comes into service in July 2017, we are working to bring this forward, and maybe introduced as early as April 17.

 

[ScotGG]

Designers have a complete flair by-pass with modern UK train interiors it seems. No it's not essential, but endless grey is just drab and dreary. Have a bit more colour. Make it a bit brighter. Obviously thinking of future wear and tear is important but there's plenty of stock that looks smart, has a bit of style and still bears that in mind across Europe.

 

[Dent]

A lady was angry there was no grab rails above the doors and I suggested that nobody should need to stand in front of the door as there should be room to move down

Haha! I said that to her! Exactly that, namely if it's that crush loaded you wouldn't need to hold on to anything.

To clarify, did you tell her both that there would be enough room to move down and that it would be so packed that people wouldn't fall over? Not only are both those statements wrong, they are also completely contradict eachother.

Trains at busy times are already overcrowded, and passenger numbers are on an increasing trend.

Holding on is very important when the train is crowded, both for your own safety and that of anyone you are likely to collide with if you don't hold on. If I was being constantly knocked into by someone who thought holding on was "unnecessary" because they would bounce off me before they hit the floor then I would quickly put them right on that point, and stress the importance of both safety and respect for personal space.

 

[jon0844]

To clarify, did you tell her both that there would be enough room to move down and that it would be so packed that people wouldn't fall over? Not only are both those statements wrong, they are also completely contradict eachother.

Trains at busy times are already overcrowded, and passenger numbers are on an increasing trend.

Holding on is very important when the train is crowded, both for your own safety and that of anyone you are likely to collide with if you don't hold on. If I was being constantly knocked into by someone who thought holding on was "unnecessary" because they would bounce off me before they hit the floor then I would quickly put them right on that point, and stress the importance of both safety and respect for personal space.

I was joking about the crush loading bit and she obviously couldn't see how open the trains will be, as it's about a tenth of a carriage length (if you count the fact part of it is the cab). She was also moaning to the CSA about the lack of handles on existing trains, with him saying what ones did have them.

I only spoke to her because she rudely interrupted our conversation to have her rant, and I'm not sure why she was so dismissive of the grab rails in the centre of the train doorways, which would be more sensible to hold on to.

And she was told it was a mock up provided by another train company and the design wasn't finalised anyway.

 

[Dent]

I was joking about the crush loading bit and she obviously couldn't see how open the trains will be, as it's about a tenth of a carriage length (if you count the fact part of it is the cab). She was also moaning to the CSA about the lack of handles on existing trains, with him saying what ones did have them.

I only spoke to her because she rudely interrupted our conversation to have her rant, and I'm not sure why she was so dismissive of the grab rails in the centre of the train doorways, which would be more sensible to hold on to.

And she was told it was a mock up provided by another train company and the design wasn't finalised anyway.

The main point if the mock-up is to gather useful feedback. If the grab handles could be better placed, or if the train could benefit from having more of them, then that is useful information that any sensible designer would use to improve their product.

Dismissing suggested improvements as "moaning", a "rant" or any other dismissive and derogatory term is hardly constructive, and defeats the whole object of seeking feedback.

 

[jon0844]

The main point if the mock-up is to gather useful feedback. If the grab handles could be better placed, or if the train could benefit from having more of them, then that is useful information that any sensible designer would use to improve their product.

Dismissing suggested improvements as "moaning", a "rant" or any other dismissive and derogatory term is hardly constructive, and defeats the whole object of seeking feedback.

The CSA did listen and did say it wasn't final, and that some trains do have grab rails over the doors. She just wanted a rant, and because she was rude to me I decided to joke a bit with her. Then she was on about how bad the trains are, how much she pays and how I obviously don't travel on trains etc.

And then she stormed off.

Anyway, I stick to my point about it but being big enough to give a good impression of what these trains look like. Basically, two sets of doors and four seats, plus a cab.

I took away a leaflet and wonder if the idea is to give feedback online or something (I don't have it to hand) as there wasn't anyone there taking notes or anything.

 

[physics34]

Roger Ford has stated the class number. So unofficial but informed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I didn't find the 700 seats that bad while sitting in standard.

Like youve said, each to their own, some people will find them comfortable but i fail to get your quote on the 700 thread that they are "very comfortable". To me that would mean that a plank of wood would be "comfortable" if we are using a sliding scale of comfortness.

Anything with more padding and springs would be comfortable in my opinion
(with the right seating pitch which the 700s/387s etc actually have)

319s for example, although they have more padding and springs, do not have the right pitch and are too low.

And of course the lack of armrests and the seats being squashed onto the side wall and next to each other without shoulder space.

Would you say the seats are comfortable for Littlehampton to St Pancras International (2hours)

 

[class387]

Went to see the mock-up today.

Basically what I was expecting. The Desiro City does look good in SWT red, much better than the Thameslink white. Internally it seems pretty much identical to the 700, just red. The seats are the most comfortable Fainsas yet in my opinion, probably thanks to the use of proper moquette over the Southern astroturf, but this is coming from someone who likes the other Fainsas. Completely agree about the size of the mock-up, which is better that Thameslink's model from their tour but nothing compared to what was shown at Excel. It is quite dark and does not show the space provided by the 707s - not sure that the cab is the most useful thing for a regular passenger to see. Note that this is a plywood mock-up, not a modified train, but is still enough to make me look forward to their introduction.

 

[Class377/5]

Like youve said, each to their own, some people will find them comfortable but i fail to get your quote on the 700 thread that they are "very comfortable". To me that would mean that a plank of wood would be "comfortable" if we are using a sliding scale of comfortness.

Anything with more padding and springs would be comfortable in my opinion
(with the right seating pitch which the 700s/387s etc actually have)

319s for example, although they have more padding and springs, do not have the right pitch and are too low.

And of course the lack of armrests and the seats being squashed onto the side wall and next to each other without shoulder space.

Would you say the seats are comfortable for Littlehampton to St Pancras International (2hours)

That's fine but as I've stated mines based on an actual real trip on a unit and not a few minutes at a mock up (I actually ended up sitting on the mock up seats for a few hours too). And for the record I found them fine after sitting down for about an hour, certainly better than any other rolling stock on the BML at present.

For me I find the 387s a good mix and I feel the 700s improve on this. The routes that the 707 will service, what are the average and longest journey times like?

 

[JonathanH]

That's fine but as I've stated mines based on an actual real trip on a unit and not a few minutes at a mock up (I actually ended up sitting on the mock up seats for a few hours too). And for the record I found them fine after sitting down for about an hour, certainly better than any other rolling stock on the BML at present.

For me I find the 387s a good mix and I feel the 700s improve on this. The routes that the 707 will service, what are the average and longest journey times like?

It takes almost an hour to get to Windsor from Waterloo on the normal services. While you could argue that most passengers for Feltham or Staines probably aim for the Reading services and most passengers for Chertsey or Addlestone would go via Weybridge to/from Waterloo, there are through passengers for the Windsor branch.

Once the 707s arrive will the surplus 458/5s beyond the 24 or so needed for Reading work to Windsor or on the main line?