Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

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There will be, don't think they have gone over to 707s yet though. Should be:
2D23 1039 London Waterloo-Guildford
2D93 1801 London Waterloo-Epsom
2D55 1839 London Waterloo- Guildford
1D57 1924 London Waterloo-Dorking
5D56 1846 Epsom-London Waterloo
1D66 2034 Dorking-London Waterloo
Thanks. 1801 to Epsom is a train I often catch home. It was briefly 10-car 456/455 but has reverted to 8 455 lately.
 
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Juniper Driver

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I had 707016 today...I don't know how long it's been in traffic.Also saw 707017 a couple of times out and about.

Means AFAIR 707003/7/8/10/12/13/14/15/16/25/26 and 28 I've driven.Possibly a few more I've forgotten about.
 

macaronlover

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Will the times for these diagrams change tomorrow/next week? Looking to board one from London Waterloo during the weekday off-peak. Couldn't seem to find any in this forum.
 

GW43125

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Will the times for these diagrams change tomorrow/next week? Looking to board one from London Waterloo during the weekday off-peak. Couldn't seem to find any in this forum.
The diagrams are all over the place until the last units arrive.

Just go for a Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow rounder service and you’re bound to get one within half an hour
 

TEW

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Ah, my local. Please note only a couple of 707s go to Guildford, right in the early morning ;)
No 707s booked at Guildford at the moment, haven't been since the timetable change in December. There should be some soon:
2D23 1039 London Waterloo-Guildford via Epsom
2G34 1207 Guildford-London Waterloo via Cobham
2D55 1939 London Waterloo-Guildford via Epsom
2G66 2007 Guildford-London Waterloo via Cobham
 

Peter Sarf

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Yes 707021 and 707022 got away from Dollands Moor. So that leaves only (!) 707024 and 707030 to be delivered. The already delivered 26 are all in service I believe.

But there is a chance that one or both of the remaining two to be delivered might not arrive very soon. I always think the last in class can arrive after a long pause if some major parts from it have been robbed for an earlier delivery. Suppose one coach is not put together quite right or in the case of a DMU perhaps the engines are failing too soon so more than anticipated spare engines are required. Just my theory.
 

43096

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Yes 707021 and 707022 got away from Dollands Moor. So that leaves only (!) 707024 and 707030 to be delivered. The already delivered 26 are all in service I believe.

But there is a chance that one or both of the remaining two to be delivered might not arrive very soon. I always think the last in class can arrive after a long pause if some major parts from it have been robbed for an earlier delivery. Suppose one coach is not put together quite right or in the case of a DMU perhaps the engines are failing too soon so more than anticipated spare engines are required. Just my theory.
You mean like 387174 for GWR?!

I think there's less chance of it happening with the last two 707s given their commonality with other Desiro Cities like the Class 700s and 717s. 387174 is the very last Electrostar, of course, so there will be much less in common with the Aventra line.
 

Peter Sarf

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You mean like 387174 for GWR?!

I think there's less chance of it happening with the last two 707s given their commonality with other Desiro Cities like the Class 700s and 717s. 387174 is the very last Electrostar, of course, so there will be much less in common with the Aventra line.
Your right. More risk with the last 387 of course.
 

traji00

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707029 had a 'wonderful' 14 min sit-down this evening on 2V53. The train in question rocked up to Clapham Junction on time but full and standing, then the front-most doors got stuck on people's feet (as they do) before refusing to close at all. I tried pulling them shut but no interlock. In the end the guard had to re-release the doors and locally close the front door first to get an interlock.

Something I've learnt from dispatching 707s is to be weary of the door's curvature when closing - even more so now.


Also I've heard a (possibly canteen) rumour suggesting the 707s may be kept by SWR after all - I'll give out the salt.
 

paok

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Perhaps not according to this from the Evening Standard yesterday: https://www.standard.co.uk/business...g-replaced-by-a-brand-new-model-a3766501.html

Business focus: Why your box-fresh train is being replaced by a brand new model

Gleaming new trains will be mothballed within two years in favour of even newer, cheaper rolling stock

Privatisation has thrown up many anomalies in how Britain travels by train. We’ve all scratched our heads at how single fares can cost the same as returns; trips to Scotland can turn out cheaper than an awayday to Birmingham.

But there’s another way the free market has bizarrely contorted the natural order: the state of the very trains we sit in.

If you are reading this on a South Western Railway service on the Windsor line out of Waterloo, the chances are you’re sitting (or standing) in a brand, spanking new carriage.

Built by Siemens in Krefeld, Germany, it is known as a Desiro City Class 707 and only entered service in the past few months.

The previous operator of your line, South West Trains, decided to order 30 of them back in 2014 to expand the Waterloo fleet.

Trains take a while to build, so deliveries only began towards the end of last year, with the last one expected to be finished and carrying passengers in the next couple of weeks.

Lucky you. But don’t get used to them. For, despite the fact that trains are built to last at least 30 years, these 150 carriages will be out of service by the end of next year.

Why? Because the franchise changed hands and the new operators (FirstGroup and MTR) have struck another deal to replace them all with an even more brand new set.

Thanks to the bizarre nature of the train world, it has become cheaper for them to get an entirely new batch of rolling stock than to continue with the present “new” ones.

Let me explain. When rail was privatised three decades ago, John Major’s government created a set-up where trains would be owned and maintained by one lot of companies but operated by another.

Train operating companies, or TOCs, would run them under franchises of around seven years, leasing them from the owners — rolling stock operating companies, or Roscos.

Still with me?

The separation was done because the government wanted to keep franchises relatively short, hoping to foster regularly refreshed competition and make it easier to calculate the value of the contract. Given that trains last 30 years, it made sense for them to be financed, owned and serviced by separate companies.

Famously, the trains were sold way too cheaply to the three Roscos, Porterbrook, Angel Trains and Eversholt Rail, which made themselves fortunes in the early days.

Now, though, the pendulum has swung against the establishment trio. First, low interest rates mean it is cheaper than ever to borrow the money for buying trains. This has attracted new competitors into the market to take on the old Roscos. They have raised billions of pounds from pension funds wanting to invest in that most zeitgeisty of asset classes, “infrastructure”.

Second, huge competition among train-makers means businesses such as Siemens, Bombardier and Stadler have been forced to cut their prices. One source says prices are at their lowest since the early 2000s.

The TOCs can barely keep a straight face: “We’ve never had it so good,” says one director. “And it’s about time the boot was on our foot.”

So, it has worked out cheaper for South Western Railway to ditch the brand new Waterloo-to-Windsor 707s South West Trains leased from Angel Trains for “new” new trains from one of the newcomers to the leasing world, Rock Infrastructure.

Over at Liverpool Street, it’s the same story. Greater Anglia is ditching the Bombardiers it leased from Macquarie to run the Stansted Express despite their being only six years old.

Similar cases abound, leaving leasing companies scrabbling to find new operators to take their nearly new trains.

Why don’t they just park them in a sidings somewhere and wait for the market to turn? Because, as Angel Trains chief operating officer Kevin Tribley says: “That costs money. Trains are like cars — they don’t like just being left. You have to keep servicing them and looking after them.”

Not much fun when you’re not getting any rental income.

Tribley says he’s working hard to find new operators for his 707s: “It would be a crying shame if, in a country where trains are full of passengers, brand new ones like ours weren’t being used.”

Tony Lodge of the Centre for Policy Studies think-tank has another name for it — “madness”.

He says the present Government should allow new, smaller companies to run these nearly-new trains on local routes in semi-rural locations currently underserved by the big franchises.

Take the East Coast Mainline, he says. Two new companies, Hull Trains and Grand Central, launched services to towns such as Hull, Sunderland and Bradford which had long been denied direct services to London.

“They were able to make it work financially because they leased slightly older rolling stock. But passengers don’t mind; the trains are perfectly decent, and mean they have an alternative to driving.”

Whether the Transport Secretary Chris Grayling heeds Lodge or not, all this market pressure on the Roscos is a rare bit of good news for passengers facing ever-higher fares.

This year will see the biggest number of brand new trains coming onto our rail network ever. As one train operator says: “This is one example where the free market in rail is really working for the public.”

That doesn’t mean, though, that there aren’t negative consequences for the country.

Porterbrook, Angel and Eversholt, with their fleets ranging from brand new to 20 years-plus, are the biggest users of Britain’s rail engineering industry. Tens of thousands of British jobs rely on Roscos re-engineering mid-life trains and keeping them in service.

With so many shiny new ones coming into the system, those jobs will dry up. For a Government which considers rail as a core plank in its industrial strategy, that’s bad news.

Furthermore, as far as servicing goes, the new generation of trains are like modern cars. Less get-out-your- spanner, more plug-in-your laptop. Britain’s engineers need reskilling for the time when today’s new trains start getting old.

Perhaps, you might say, that time will never come: trains will just keep being renewed every few years — Britain will become the Peter Pan of rolling stock.

Unlikely.

Whether it’s an established player such as Angel Trains or a newcomer like Rock, all leasing firms rely on investors to finance their trains. If lenders see many more situations where their brand new trains are being shunted off into the sidings gathering dust and no rent, they’ll soon begin to charge more for the added risk.

And that’s before the Bank of England starts putting up interest rates.

As one Rosco director puts it: “There’s no doubt, the market is currently in a bubble.”

We all know what happens to bubbles. Newbies like Rock might want to bear that in mind.
 
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I experienced an interesting PIS blooper today on a 707 doing the Kingston loop via Richmond which I joined at Twickenham where the PIS was still reporting Strawberry Hill as the destination (no problem with this) at Strawberry Hill this reset to Waterloo.

The issue was evident as the train approached Teddington where the PIS voice announced that one could change for Strawberry Hill, Twickenham and Richmond but the display read Strawberry Hill, Twickenham and Swanley

Where they got Swanley from is anyones guess!

Also a bit strange announcing change for Strawberry Hill Twickenham and Richmond on a train that had just come from there, surely much more useful to announce change for Hampton, Sunbury and Shepperton?
 

Peter Sarf

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Is the delivery of the final pair scheduled for this coming weekend?
Path in for the last two 707024 & 707030 for Friday night arriving Clapham Junction (on Saturday) at 00:35 iirc. i have not heard that they are approaching the tunnel yet.

I experienced an interesting PIS blooper today on a 707 doing the Kingston loop via Richmond which I joined at Twickenham where the PIS was still reporting Strawberry Hill as the destination (no problem with this) at Strawberry Hill this reset to Waterloo.

The issue was evident as the train approached Teddington where the PIS voice announced that one could change for Strawberry Hill, Twickenham and Richmond but the display read Strawberry Hill, Twickenham and Swanley

Where they got Swanley from is anyones guess!

Also a bit strange announcing change for Strawberry Hill Twickenham and Richmond on a train that had just come from there, surely much more useful to announce change for Hampton, Sunbury and Shepperton?
Swanley ha ha. Showing their Thameslink roots inadvertently I suspect.
 

TEW

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Also a bit strange announcing change for Strawberry Hill Twickenham and Richmond on a train that had just come from there, surely much more useful to announce change for Hampton, Sunbury and Shepperton?
Noticed similar when a 707 was working a Woking-Waterloo stopping service recently. Approaching Surbiton we were advised to change for Woking, Basingstoke and Guildford. The direction the train had just come in!
 

GW43125

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On one of my commutes last week, the screen was advising not in service, but the announcements were correct!
 

43096

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707021/022 are out on commissioning runs today on the usual Clapham-Reading-Staines etc circuit.
 

fairysdad

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I had a bit of a thought about the seats on the 707s the other day (which will probably also apply to the 700s and possibly even the 80xs). I'm wondering if the over-firmness of the seats is actually simply because they're new and not because there's less padding. I was on a 455 the other day and the 455 seat I was on was also somewhat firm; it looked as if it had been replaced recently given how red the moquette was and how tired-looking some of the other seats in the coach were. Sitting on a 707 later that day, it did seem as if there was padding there, but thinking that because it hasn't been used much yet, they haven't softened up.
 

Goldfish62

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I had a bit of a thought about the seats on the 707s the other day (which will probably also apply to the 700s and possibly even the 80xs). I'm wondering if the over-firmness of the seats is actually simply because they're new and not because there's less padding. I was on a 455 the other day and the 455 seat I was on was also somewhat firm; it looked as if it had been replaced recently given how red the moquette was and how tired-looking some of the other seats in the coach were. Sitting on a 707 later that day, it did seem as if there was padding there, but thinking that because it hasn't been used much yet, they haven't softened up.
I know what you mean. For me it's more to do with the odd shape of the Fainsa seats. I find repadded Grammer seats as in the 455s, 450s etc comfortable because of their shape, even though they are firm. The Fainsa Ironing boards just make you sit in an unnatural posture
 

slicedbread

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I was waiting at the level crossing in Farncombe yesterday lunchtime (17th Feb) and was slightly supprised when a 707 trundled past. My wife was just commenting on how nice and new it looked.

Looks like it was running empty from Petersfield to Guildford.

I'm guessing it won't be a regular sight.
 
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