Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[Bigfoot]

Well, either First are indeed supporting Wimbledon or the depot didn't get the message, judging by the superb reliability the 707s are developing

Siemens are still involved in the 707s, where as the rest of the fleet is suffering from some quite worrying issues. Very much in need of a replacement.

 

[43096]

Siemens are still involved in the 707s, where as the rest of the fleet is suffering from some quite worrying issues. Very much in need of a replacement.

Nothing to do with WorstGroup’s scorched earth policy, of course. The contrast with Stagecoach could not be starker.

 

[hwl]

Are you serious there are no toilets aboard a 707? wow I honestly did not know. I haven't yet seen one in the flesh - never mind travelled on one. Thanks for the insight.

Toilets also increase failures as an extra thing to go wrong...
3rd rail metro route trains traditionally never had toilets e.g. EPBs and 455 so continuing a long tradition.

 

[hwl]

Siemens are still involved in the 707s, where as the rest of the fleet is suffering from some quite worrying issues. Very much in need of a replacement.

Old age related (455s) or just bad design related (or both!)?

 

[infobleep]

Toilets also increase failures as an extra thing to go wrong...
3rd rail metro route trains traditionally never had toilets e.g. EPBs and 455 so continuing a long tradition.

But in this modern age of being inclusive, toilets are wonderful for people with certain kinds of disabilities. I mean EPBs weren't wheelchair friendly., if I'm right in saying but 707s are. So moving to stock that includes loo will be great

Half an hour or even 50 minutes is a long time on a train without a loo for some people. For reference Guildford to Clapham Junction via Cobham is 50 minutes. There maybe other long journey people need to do on them. That's just the example I know of.

So in that respect I won't miss the 707s. Not that I often board one as I rarely travel on the services where they are used.

 

[hwl]

But in this modern age of being inclusive, toilets are wonderful for people with certain kinds of disabilities. I mean EPBs weren't wheelchair friendly., if I'm right in saying but 707s are. So moving to stock that includes loo will be great

Half an hour or even 50 minutes is a long time on a train without a loo for some people. For reference Guildford to Clapham Junction via Cobham is 50 minutes. There maybe other long journey people need to do on them. That's just the example I know of.

So in that respect I won't miss the 707s. Not that I often board one as I rarely travel on the services where they are used.

707s - The lack of anything to hold on to half the time while I stand on one is high on the wish list from everyone at my local station!

 

[Goldfish62]

Toilets also increase failures as an extra thing to go wrong...
3rd rail metro route trains traditionally never had toilets e.g. EPBs and 455 so continuing a long tradition.

But said metro trains traditionally never had air conditioning. Times move on, expectations change. I don't see how toilets create a failure. You can operate a train with a locked toilet.

 

[pompeyfan]

707s - The lack of anything to hold on to half the time while I stand on one is high on the wish list from everyone at my local station!

Which is part of the reason they don’t meet franchise spec, have the desiros officially seen an increase in MTIN? I’m wondering if the ongoing borrowing from the maintenance pool is having an effect, initially borrowing to cover diesel 3rd rail diagrams, and now 442s. I notice ride quality is shocking at the moment. Not sure if it’s track or stock related but I went on a 444 and got thrown about, 3 hours later same track same direction on a voyager and barely noticed it.

 

[samuelmorris]

Toilets also increase failures as an extra thing to go wrong...
3rd rail metro route trains traditionally never had toilets e.g. EPBs and 455 so continuing a long tradition.

toilets are very unlikely to cause a TIN though, which is the statistic being referenced here.

The 707s may only be the most reliable 'new train' but their score is so high that they're very nearly the most reliable train overall. Only a couple of subclasses of 350 will be scoring higher than that (including the one that's also shortly going to be withdrawn).

 

[43096]

toilets are very unlikely to cause a TIN though, which is the statistic being referenced here.

The 707s may only be the most reliable 'new train' but their score is so high that they're very nearly the most reliable train overall. Only a couple of subclasses of 350 will be scoring higher than that (including the one that's also shortly going to be withdrawn).

As above, the figure posted is the period spot figure, not the MAA which is both a better guide and what is used for the Golden Spanner awards.

Too many people who don’t understand the data they are looking at and what it means!

 

[samuelmorris]

As above, the figure posted is the period spot figure, not the MAA which is both a better guide and what is used for the Golden Spanner awards.

Too many people who don’t understand the data they are looking at and what it means!

Something else modern railways do which is a necessary side-effect of the way they present the data, is divide the total fleet mileage by 1 if there were 0 TINs in the period. I took a look at the last few months back until I found a TIN - I think June had three, so I summed the June/July/August figures and divided by June's 3 TINs, it gives a figure of around 90,000, which over a 3-month span is enough to put them certainly in the top 10, probably the top 5 overall.

Edit:

707s had 3 TINs in July, so July + August's mileage / those 3 = 127333 MTIN
That would put them 2nd place behind last year's leader, the 350/3 at 138,579.
2017 saw both the 450/444s exceeding 90,000 as well but post-SWR they have fallen to the middle of the pack. Whether that's due to questionable accounting on SWT's part of SWR's lesser maintenance regime, I suspect it's both.

 

[Bigfoot]

In other news chatting to a fellow driver who had just had an email from his LDC (union guy) which said the company expects to have the 707s for another two years, with the 458's going first as the 701's are delivered.

 

[Goldfish62]

In other news chatting to a fellow driver who had just had an email from his LDC (union guy) which said the company expects to have the 707s for another two years, with the 458's going first as the 701's are delivered.

Good. Can't wait to be rid of the 458s.

 

[infobleep]

Good. Can't wait to be rid of the 458s.

Shame the first trains to be replaced can't be ones without loos. Saying that I've read on here that the loos on the 458s don't always work.

 

[swt_passenger]

Shame the first trains to be replaced can't be ones with loos. Saying that I've read on here that the loos on the 458s don't always work.

That makes no sense, presumably you meant to write ‘without loos”?

 

[43096]

Good. Can't wait to be rid of the 458s.

100% disagree. 458s are the best suburban units SWR have.

 

[Railperf]

Something else modern railways do which is a necessary side-effect of the way they present the data, is divide the total fleet mileage by 1 if there were 0 TINs in the period. I took a look at the last few months back until I found a TIN - I think June had three, so I summed the June/July/August figures and divided by June's 3 TINs, it gives a figure of around 90,000, which over a 3-month span is enough to put them certainly in the top 10, probably the top 5 overall.

Edit:

707s had 3 TINs in July, so July + August's mileage / those 3 = 127333 MTIN
That would put them 2nd place behind last year's leader, the 350/3 at 138,579.
2017 saw both the 450/444s exceeding 90,000 as well but post-SWR they have fallen to the middle of the pack. Whether that's due to questionable accounting on SWT's part of SWR's lesser maintenance regime, I suspect it's both.

No surprise though that the best performing units are mainly Siemens built.

 

[samuelmorris]

No surprise though that the best performing units are mainly Siemens built.

Indeed, it's a slam dunk for Siemens apart from the 379s, ironically the only other modern unit class also going off-lease. The best performers including the 350/2, 379 and 707 certainly has a degree of irony to it.

 

[Goldfish62]

Shame the first trains to be replaced can't be ones with loos. Saying that I've read on here that the loos on the 458s don't always work.

The loos have been useless ever since the trains were introduced. There was a bit of an improvement when SWR took over, but they seem to have largely given up on them now.

 

[infobleep]

That makes no sense, presumably you meant to write ‘without loos”?

Yes I have amended it. My apologies.

 

[Ladder23]

is there strong evidence yet to say what the future of the 707's will be, i.e storage or another toc

 

[swt_passenger]

is there strong evidence yet to say what the future of the 707's will be, i.e storage or another toc

Nothing whatsoever has surfaced in this forum yet.

 

[spark001uk]

You're right about the 458 loos, in fact they hardly ever work! As for the 707 timekeeping, I agree they're pretty good in that respect. Unlike for example when they stick a 450 on the Weybridge. Take the 0922 off Waterloo for instance, it loses time every single day.

 

[pompeyfan]

You're right about the 458 loos, in fact they hardly ever work! As for the 707 timekeeping, I agree they're pretty good in that respect. Unlike for example when they stick a 450 on the Weybridge. Take the 0922 off Waterloo for instance, it loses time every single day.

likely to be because it’s the train that training school use, lots of stops, CCTV dispatch etc.

 

[43096]

likely to be because it’s the train that training school use, lots of stops, CCTV dispatch etc.

And the fact that 450s have a much slower door cycle time than either the 458s or 707s. A 450 always loses time on Windsor line workings because of this.

 

[pompeyfan]

And the fact that 450s have a much slower door cycle time than either the 458s or 707s. A 450 always loses time on Windsor line workings because of this.

Oh yes I’m not denying that fact, but it doesn’t help that the training school often borrow that train

 

[Mikey C]

In the comments on Geoff Marshall's latest video (where he rides the 701 at Bombardier Derby) the rumour he heard was that the 707s would go to Southeastern. Someone else then continued that this would be to replace the 376s which would go to Southern.

 

[gc1982]

That would be a net reduction of 6 units for southeastern if that happens...

 

[hwl]

In the comments on Geoff Marshall's latest video (where he rides the 701 at Bombardier Derby) the rumour he heard was that the 707s would go to Southeastern. Someone else then continued that this would be to replace the 376s which would go to Southern.

Probably repeating the same rumours circulating here...

 

[jopsuk]

more factual is that in this months Modern Railways the 707s are now firmly at the top of Roger Ford's new train reliability table with an amazingly high Miles Per Technical Incident of over 189,000, with a single TIN* in the reporting period. Some similar age fleets are still struggling to achieve 10,000

*any incident caused by rail vehicle fault resulting in a delay of 3 minutes or more