Class 710 LO

delt1c

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Passenger experience is "Bums on Seats". Technology is the unseen asspects.
If it were purely passenger experience we would still be with Stephensons Rocket as passengers then were happy
 
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delt1c

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There is very little difference in the passenger experience of a 14 year old.
So a Mk1 SK at 100mph and a MkII at va 100mph are the same? I think Not, try walking with a cup of coffee from the buffet, dificult in a Mk!!, inposible in a MkI
 

jopsuk

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i was regular commuter on the Lea Valley lines until 2011 and all we got was cast of's sao nice to see some new stock at lasat on this busy cummuter service ( although i will not benifit). Even when other franchises were refurbishing stock all we got was a cheap refresh, and before anyone mentions the 317/6's they were refurbished by WAGN for KX to Peterboro. On the plus side the 317's and 315's have done well on such an intensive service
Cast offs? The 315s, much like the 710s, were ordered for the Lee Valley lines and Shenfield Metro and have not worked anywhere else. Old, yes, but not cast offs.
 

delt1c

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Cast offs? The 315s, much like the 710s, were ordered for the Lee Valley lines and Shenfield Metro and have not worked anywhere else. Old, yes, but not cast offs.
No replaced the chingford stock, the Lea Valley lines we got 312's to replace the 305's then 317's . Then 315's.
I was there and experienced the changes
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Cast offs? The 315s, much like the 710s, were ordered for the Lee Valley lines and Shenfield Metro and have not worked anywhere else. Old, yes, but not cast offs.
Casts offs from GA to LO, and I can understand any annoyance, in my opinion the 315s are pretty freakish. The TFL Rail ones more so though.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Cor, the amount of people who try to prove a point to me on here by bringing Virgin into it! But in this case you are correct, my bad.
 

samuelmorris

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Casts offs from GA to LO, and I can understand any annoyance, in my opinion the 315s are pretty freakish. The TFL Rail ones more so though.
Getting a bit nuts now surely? They're the exact same except a different colour. Easily identifiable as the LO units used to work on the TfL Rail route and vice versa.
 

Wivenswold

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The Lea Valley lines had 310s for a short time they worked with 321s in 1989-1990, both were replaced by 317s from WCML. The 315s were there all along but their territory did expand as they mixed in with the 317s.
Some of the 305s headed to LTS for a short while. NSE 312s only ever worked GN, GEML and LTS.

Back to the 710s as per the OP, very nice looking trains, big upgrade on the existing stock which is really not fit for use as inner-suburban people movers. Looking forward to seeing interior shots.
 

samuelmorris

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The 315s were but are about end of life, the 317s I agree, 100mph units with some 2+2 transverse seating and the rest doing metro services with less an a mile between stops is workable but far from ideal. I'm just still a little surprised that excluding what happens to the 378 fleets as a result, there's no net gain of units here.
 

XCTurbostar

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The interior was not yet fitted out. This was just a quick testing run to ensure that the control units were all talking to each other like it says it should on paper. There should be a press run at Derby in January time.
 

plcd1

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The interior was not yet fitted out. This was just a quick testing run to ensure that the control units were all talking to each other like it says it should on paper. There should be a press run at Derby in January time.
As late as January? Well that basically confirms the trains' delivery is late compared to the contractual milestone dates - unless there has been an agreed contract variation because of the NR wiring delays on the GOBLIN meaning TfL didn't want trains sitting in depot unable to go anywhere.
 

dp21

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Casts offs from GA to LO, and I can understand any annoyance, in my opinion the 315s are pretty freakish. The TFL Rail ones more so though.
I'm afraid I'd had to disagree as, yes whilst they've passed from one operator to another they still work the same services. I would consider a cast off more being replaced by something new and going to another route. This was LO/TfL Rail taking over GA services rather than GA saying they didn't want the units anymore. Just my opinion though!

As late as January? Well that basically confirms the trains' delivery is late compared to the contractual milestone dates - unless there has been an agreed contract variation because of the NR wiring delays on the GOBLIN meaning TfL didn't want trains sitting in depot unable to go anywhere.
Given these are "meant" to enter service in May I can't help but feel you're right in that there must be some agreement between the parties that this will be delayed. Does anyone know if the 345 production is affecting these in any way to delay production?
 

yorkie

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Casts offs from GA to LO, and I can understand any annoyance, in my opinion the 315s are pretty freakish. The TFL Rail ones more so though.
This makes absolutely no sense. They are operating the same services on the same route. Your logic appears to be that each time a service changes operator, any trains retained become "cast offs". Trains are built to last decades, yet an operator may change on a much more frequent basis.

Can we please not have off-topic posts like this cluttering up the discussion? If you want to make this sort of illogical point, fine, but do so in a new thread in future (where you will no doubt get many people disagreeing with you). I refer you to my post on Monday. Thank you :)
 

hassaanhc

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But definitely not appropriate for the Western end, where there is a significant flow from intermediate stations to London, with journey times of around an hour.
Us passengers at Southall would like to be able to actually board trains in the morning peak, instead of being left behind on the platform.

Why not? Reading, Twyford and Maidenhead can and will make use of Oxford services (or IEP from Reading), so the furthest out from the centre that are forced onto 345s will be Taplow, 34 minutes from Paddington - that's entirely reasonable and proportionate with the Eastern end - Brentwood to Liverpool Street is 36 minutes.
And of course there are a number of Tube journeys which take as long or even longer. Outer ends of the Central or Piccadilly lines to Z1 for example, and they have much smaller trains to contend with.
 

Wivenswold

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Given these are "meant" to enter service in May I can't help but feel you're right in that there must be some agreement between the parties that this will be delayed. Does anyone know if the 345 production is affecting these in any way to delay production?
Not that I'd like to hand a beating stick to GA's many adversaries but you can't help thinking that any delay on the 345 and 710 order will result in a serious problem with the delivery of the 720s which itself is time-critical due to the number of non-DDA units in service.
 

physics34

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Charming!

No it’s the 315s with the TFL Rail interior scheme I hate most!
think we need a balance on this forum regarding "liking and hating" trains, and proper conversations regarding suitability, age of rolling stock and other factors such as that. I think 315s look ugly personally (front end) but the 710s look even worse, but both have their merits and both are suitable for the route! I am obsessed with passenger comfort which other regular posters will no doubt notice and im am concerned once again that the seats will be hard and uncomfortable for the longer journeys on this route.
 

Mikey C

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think we need a balance on this forum regarding "liking and hating" trains, and proper conversations regarding suitability, age of rolling stock and other factors such as that. I think 315s look ugly personally (front end) but the 710s look even worse, but both have their merits and both are suitable for the route! I am obsessed with passenger comfort which other regular posters will no doubt notice and im am concerned once again that the seats will be hard and uncomfortable for the longer journeys on this route.
While comfort is a personal judgement, I'm not sure many people will consider the original low backed seats on the PePs and 455s anything other than pretty grim, and of a similar level of comfort to recent Overground stock lie the 378s...
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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While comfort is a personal judgement, I'm not sure many people will consider the original low backed seats on the PePs and 455s anything other than pretty grim, and of a similar level of comfort to recent Overground stock lie the 378s...
I Agree totally.
 

plcd1

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While comfort is a personal judgement, I'm not sure many people will consider the original low backed seats on the PePs and 455s anything other than pretty grim, and of a similar level of comfort to recent Overground stock lie the 378s...
While I don't use the 315s that often I have used them for years and years. For a shortish journey time of 20-30 mins I've had no issue with the seat comfort at all. I don't expect Inter City style comfort on a London inner suburban service nor on the tube. My only small issues with the 378s are seat width (as I'm a fat lump) and the positioning of the bottom of the "hopper" windows. Fed up with nearly cracking my head open on that metal.

I think the problem on inner London services is that demand has risen and risen and while I am sure everyone would love a seat it is never going to happen in peak conditions. Even if they have to stand people prefer to be able to actually get on the train and get moving. It's inevitable that some element of comfort will be lost if you're catering for more a more standee type train. I'd like slightly more plush seats on the Overground rather than sitting on something borderline rock hard but I'm not going to get it. When compared to the metal and plastic offerings in many other large cities we are remarkably well off to even get some foam padding and a moquette cover. I'll reserve judgement about the 710s until I use them. I had no great issue with the one class 345 ride I've had - was perfectly fine but it was off peak so not great demand pressure / crowding.
 

physics34

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While comfort is a personal judgement, I'm not sure many people will consider the original low backed seats on the PePs and 455s anything other than pretty grim, and of a similar level of comfort to recent Overground stock lie the 378s...
there is still more padding on a PEP/455 seat that a 378
 

jopsuk

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The bit with the 310 fleet that I'm surprised with, given Thameslink stock, Crossrail stock and some of the new GA stock, is that they've gone for 4 car units for the full fleet. I'd have thought (especially if there's passenger growth) that for the Lee Valley Lines subfleet fixed 8 car formations would have been a viable option.
 

Mikey C

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While I don't use the 315s that often I have used them for years and years. For a shortish journey time of 20-30 mins I've had no issue with the seat comfort at all. I don't expect Inter City style comfort on a London inner suburban service nor on the tube. My only small issues with the 378s are seat width (as I'm a fat lump) and the positioning of the bottom of the "hopper" windows. Fed up with nearly cracking my head open on that metal.
Agreed, plus the box where the external display goes is especially annoying :frown:
 

dp21

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Not that I'd like to hand a beating stick to GA's many adversaries but you can't help thinking that any delay on the 345 and 710 order will result in a serious problem with the delivery of the 720s which itself is time-critical due to the number of non-DDA units in service.
Yup, there's that and many other problems which a delay would cause! Fingers crossed that won't be an issue as that would cause absolute chaos
 

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