Class 710 LO

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by AlanFry1, 23 Apr 2017.

  1. nigelsporne

    nigelsporne Member

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    I travelled on 258 earlier this week and yes the seats are hard but no different to most new stock these days. My understanding is that the specification for most new stock is developed by the Government so its like buying a car you can have the basic model or a deluxe model with varieties inbetween. It apparently does not cost too much for better seats but taken over a large fleet it obviously adds up. Talking to a driver on the Goblin line he was praising the new units saying they were a pleasure to operate. However I did notice a number of door seals flapping in the breeze!
     
  2. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    You can’t really blame the government, the 710s are 100% TfL. But in any case, apart from a couple of high profile orders, ie GWR and ECML IEP, and Thameslink 700s, I don’t believe most new stock interiors actually are specified by DfT...
     
  3. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Except these were ordered by TfL!
    The fires safety rules are the big one for seat cushion firmness with the environment post Grenfell pushing in the direction of stricter interpretation of any existing regulations.
     
  4. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    Puzzled why you consider the 710s to be a downgrade on the 378s, to me the seating is much the same.

    As for the 313s, the original BR seating in them was pretty basic and uncomfortable too!
     
  5. Lukeo

    Lukeo Member

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    There’s no fabric on the armrests, something which the 378s and the more recent s-stock have.
     
  6. FOH

    FOH Member

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    378 refurbs have ditched the fabric.
     
  7. BlyRF

    BlyRF Member

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    Not that I care much about the seat and comfort of any train, but have there been anymore reported runs on the Watford dc line and any news on the testing of coupling of sets for the west Anglia lines?
     
  8. Ibex

    Ibex Member

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    There's three diagrams per day on the DC at the moment.

    06:29 2C05 Watford Junction-Euston
    07:27 2D92 Euston-Watford Junction
    08:29 2C13 Watford Junction-Euston
    09:28 2D84 Euston-Watford Junction
    16:31 2C45 Watford Junction-Euston
    17:27 2D52 Euston-Watford Junction
    18:31 2C53 Watford Junction-Euston
    19:27 2D44 Euston-Watford Junction
    20:31 2C61 Watford Junction-Euston
    21:28 2D36 Euston-Willesden Jn

    06:34 2C03 Willesden Jn- Euston
    06:58 2D94 Euston-Watford Junction
    07:59 2C11 Watford Junction-Euston
    08:58 2D86 Euston-Watford Junction
    10:01 2C19 Watford Junction-Euston
    10:58 2D78 Euston-Watford Junction
    12:01 2C27 Watford Junction-Euston
    12:58 2D70 Euston-Watford Junction
    14:01 2C35 Watford Junction-Euston
    14:58 2D62 Euston-Watford Junction
    16:01 2C43 Watford Junction-Euston
    16:57 2D54 Euston-Watford Junction
    18:01 2C51 Watford Junction-Euston
    18:57 2D46 Euston-Watford Junction
    20:01 2C59 Watford Junction-Euston
    20:57 2D38 Euston-Watford Junction
    22:01 2C67 Watford Junction-Euston
    22:57 2D30 Euston-Willesden Jn

    06:04 2C01 Willesden Jn - Euston
    06:28 2D96 Euston - Watford Junction
    07:29 2C09 Watford Junction - Euston
    08:28 2D88 Euston-Watford Junction
    09:31 2C17 Watford Junction-Euston
    10:28 2D78 Euston-Watford Junction
    11:31 2C25 Watford Junction-Euston
    12:28 2D72 Euston-Watford Junction
    13:31 2C33 Watford Junction-Euston
    14:28 2D64 Euston-Watford Junction
    15:31 2C41 Watford Junction-Euston
    16:27 2D56 Euston-Watford Junction
    17:31 2C49 Watford Junction-Euston
    18:27 2D48 Euston-Watford Junction
    19:31 2C57 Watford Junction-Euston
    21:27 2D40 Euston-Watford Junction
    21:31 2C65 Watford Junction-Euston
    22:27 2D32 Euston-Watford Junction
     
  9. Mordac

    Mordac Established Member

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    How many diagrams on the DC are there in total?
     
  10. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Eight.
     
  11. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    Should be a 4th 710 diagram on the DC next week.
     
  12. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    Took one of these on the Watford DC today. A big improvement on the 378s, so nice to be able to sit without worrying about banging by head on a window hopper frame or destination display!

    The plug doors are nice and fast too, just as fast as the sliding doors on the 378s and 700s
     
  13. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    I disagree about that, but they are fast enough for the job at least, unlike those on Desiro UK units.
     
  14. Lukeo

    Lukeo Member

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    Wait is this 100% the 710s are always on these same diagrams? Previously someone said they’re on that first one, but the other two vary. Any news on the 4th train?
     
  15. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    An AC-only class 710/1 unit is due to enter service on the Goblin from Monday.
     
  16. sjoh

    sjoh Member

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  17. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    I will never understand how the doors on the Desiro UK were ever considered acceptable in terms of speed, even in the days when passenger numbers were much lower.
     
  18. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    The pressurised doors on 395s aren't really any better in that regard.
     
  19. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    With features like ABDO rolled out then aventra overall door open timing will come down a bit more in reality (at SWR).

    I'm beginning to suspect that the Desiro doors would need a mid life re-engineer as the S54 will have run out the next time SW and LNW franchsies are retendered giving an opening for new stock to be brought in.
     
  20. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    That's probably for a separate thread, but what is meant by S54?

    It's not really release times that are the issue, but the actual operation time - as per the Desiro UK comment. They don't operate as fast as the sliding doors used on 378s and 700s, but they aren't too bad so probably won't have too much of an impact on dwell times. Certainly in SWR land they will probably be an improvement over 450s, but on LO it's difficult to say what (if any) impact it might have.

    Edit: Just timed them from video footage, they're both roughly 5.2-5.4s each, so there's nothing in it - the faster door operation on 378s is negated by a longer delay after the alarm sounds.
     
  21. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    ?....
     
  22. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Section 54 - with DfT permission binding a future franchisee to a rolling stock lease beyond the current / initial franchise term, thus allowing ~20 year leases on new post privatisation stock.
    It also had a habit of screwing over franchises with a rolling stock zoo of unsuitable rolling stock or lemons. The end of S54 is seeing a good clear out of less suitable stock.

    With ABDO the release element will be quicker.
     
  23. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Automatic Braking & Door Opening.

    Got it, thanks - that's not something I realised was particularly common. Presumably it only applied to the Desiros and possibly the 158/159s? Given that everything else is already scheduled to be replaced. I dunno, with the reliability of the 450/444 fleets as it is, it would seem very controversial to replace them just for door cycle dwell times - moving the units away from suburban operations to longer distance services seems like an appropriate enough decision.

    Anyway, just remembered what thread this is, should probably end this conversation there!
     
  24. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Automatic Braking and Door Opening effectively Thameslink Core style, which is first going to be rolled out on the 701 on the inner SWR metro network to reduce dwell times.
     
  25. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Only the initial post privatisation fleets, AIUI s54 didn’t ever get retrospectively used for existing stock. It was effectively a sweetener or guarantee to the purchasing ROSCO.
     
  26. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Only new post privatisation stock e,g Desiro, Electrostar, Voyager, Pendolino,
     
  27. 47550

    47550 Member

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    Surely the guarantee of a longer lease would mean less risk for the ROSCO and therefore lower lease costs for the franchise operator ? Which has to be a good thing for lower fares.
     
  28. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    You'd think. But remember, HSBC Rail was charging £150k a year in leasing fees for a handful of life-expired class 483 units (ex-1938 stock) used on Island Line when there were no realistic alternatives for the TOC to use.
     
  29. Snow1964

    Snow1964 Member

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    This is 3 years old, but lists the fleets subject to section 54

    https://www.parliament.uk/business/...nts/written-question/Commons/2016-09-06/45157
     
  30. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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