Class 710 LO

[20atthemagnet]

On 1122 from Enfield - Seven Sisters this morning.
I must say, a massive improvement on 2x317 which used to be on this service. Of course, the new trains coped easily with the amount of people. Would be interesting to see how many seats are still available at Edmonton Green on, say, the 1222 which is 4-car.

Not sure if this was a particular oddity in this unit but the announcements cut off the first couple of seconds (announcing "street" rather than "Silver Street"). The advert screen (or whatever its going to be used for) in front of me was off, but I had quite a lot of stuff so didn't bother going down and having a look to see if any others were working.

Also ran into someone I knew on the train, who (as above) started moaning about the lack of seats in peak time. I tried to explain the increase in capacity but this appeared to fall on deaf ears. I see now that it may take a while for people to get used to this on this route but it is a massive improvement nevertheless.

Indeed their is a bug in the current software that chops announcements prematurely. Will be fixed at some point.

 

[Mikey C]

It's not just the drop in seat capacity which will cause a few moans I imagine, it's also a significant downgrade sitting sideways on "tube style" seats as opposed to normal transverse seating, especially on the 317s which had fairly comfortable high backed seats

 

[Elshad]

Overall I would say that the announcements on the 345s and 710s are a disaster. The voice sounds robotic and like it's been sliced and diced together, and doesn't speak in proper sentences.

By contrast the announcements on the 315s are some of the best.

 

[samuelmorris]

Overall I would say that the announcements on the 345s and 710s are a disaster. The voice sounds robotic and like it's been sliced and diced together, and doesn't speak in proper sentences.

By contrast the announcements on the 315s are some of the best.

The 315 announcements I believe are the same as used by the 321s, 360s etc. as they were put in during the Greater Anglia days before TfL took the line over. The voice TfL use is fine (Emma Hignett?) and although it's personal opinion, it's just the actual technology used to deliver the messages, and the script used (i.e. to omit slightly more words than perhaps they should).

 

[Snow1964]

Indeed their is a bug in the current software that chops announcements prematurely. Will be fixed at some point.

Let’s hope it’s not the same software that controls the brakes, (or something critical), if that is example of quality of software writing that has been used on train that has been put in public service.

 

[87015]

Should be at least one pair out Sunday as Spurs are at home. Two if it all lines up.

 

[20atthemagnet]

Should be at least one pair out Sunday as Spurs are at home. Two if it all lines up.

Indeed looking for acceptance Friday. Definitely two 8 cars out next week.

 

[jon0844]

Also ran into someone I knew on the train, who (as above) started moaning about the lack of seats in peak time. I tried to explain the increase in capacity but this appeared to fall on deaf ears. I see now that it may take a while for people to get used to this on this route but it is a massive improvement nevertheless.

People will come around, as they have with the 717s (and also the 700s). I am sure people will have always had difficulty getting a seat at certain stations at certain times of the day, and they'll soon realise that they're now able to get on the first train that turns up instead of waiting for the next. That level of certainty is worth a lot, and a lot of people working in offices have all day to sit down anyway!

These trains are designed to shift lots of people, and off peak there will still be available seats as there were before.

 

[87015]

Indeed looking for acceptance Friday. Definitely two 8 cars out next week.

Shouldn’t need any additional acceptance, 103/105 off WN moving over.

 

[20atthemagnet]

Shouldn’t need any additional acceptance, 103/105 off WN moving over.

Theres another two at Ilford in an 8 formation. Unless its them there already or a later set.

Which ever/where ever they are coming from they are diagramed to be in service on Friday this week along side 108/121s normal workings.

 

[iMarbot]

The issue with audio cut off is with the software as expected. The timing of the master unit telling the slave unit when to start sending the audio out is what's causing the issue, so it's only only half of the train when in 8 car formation. The soft-launch passenger information software had the issue, after an update for the software for the full launch, the issue persisted unfortunately. If 345s still have the issue, then I doubt the issue will be fixed here anytime soon either.

As for the advert screens, they were originally "advertising" the free wifi but it seems that something got changed from the soft-launch to the official launch that disabled a bunch of them for some reason. The software to push adverts to them is also reportedly not ready.

As for the all so important maps, I believe these were made in mid 2019 and have just been sitting inside since then. As far as I'm aware they're subject to change. The tube map is extremely tiny and very hard to read and some of the other maps are not cut properly so they're not even fully visible. I presume they will all be changed out when the new units start being rolled out and they print all the maps and stuff for them.

 

[Domk]

Theres another two at Ilford in an 8 formation. Unless its them there already or a later set.

Which ever/where ever they are coming from they are diagramed to be in service on Friday this week along side 108/121s normal workings.

Thanks for the info - do we know what diagram this will be taking over? Thanks

 

[rebmcr]

Let’s hope it’s not the same software that controls the brakes, (or something critical), if that is example of quality of software writing that has been used on train that has been put in public service.

Don't be silly. PIS software is not subject to the same strict certification as safety-critical software — and for good reason. Only one of them is worth interrupting fleet rollouts for.

 

[Snow1964]

Don't be silly. PIS software is not subject to the same strict certification as safety-critical software — and for good reason. Only one of them is worth interrupting fleet rollouts for.

I know that, but are they segregated and written by different firms
Or are they talking to each other or from the same software writing company, you didn't answer this bit

But more importantly if the PIS is used to give safety announcements, but isn't working properly, doesn't that mean a safety system is not fully working. How exactly do you then define it as not safety critical. Either the announcements are important (and should work) or they are superfluous (so may as well be removed)

 

[rebmcr]

I know that, but are they segregated and written by different firms
Or are they talking to each other or from the same software writing company, you didn't answer this bit

I don't know the answer to that bit, but I don't need to because of the safety certification kerfuffle detailed earlier in this thread. That proves beyond doubt that brake safety is taken very seriously, and thus not a concern.

But more importantly if the PIS is used to give safety announcements, but isn't working properly, doesn't that mean a safety system is not fully working. How exactly do you then define it as not safety critical.

It is not certified for this purpose, hence its omission from aforementioned kerfuffle.

Either the announcements are important (and should work) or they are superfluous (so may as well be removed)

Three categories, not two: Safety-critical (must work); important (should work); superflouous (may as well be removed).

The first one has certification that can stop a rollout, the second can be solved during the running-in period, and the third (as you rightly say) nobody cares about.

While it would be nice to pre-certify the second category as well, unfortunately there has to be a balance between what is economically feasible. Otherwise we'd have armies of inspectors driving up the cost of rail travel, and causing more dangerous road journeys by extension.

 

[PizzaKing52]

What are running times for the new 710 tomorrow, I really wanna try catch a new train and try it out after months of waiting.

 

[20atthemagnet]

What are running times for the new 710 tomorrow, I really wanna try catch a new train and try it out after months of waiting.

Where are you hoping to pick one up and time?

 

[PizzaKing52]

LST towards Walthamstow in the afternoon and then back in the evening.

 

[Domk]

LST towards Walthamstow in the afternoon and then back in the evening.

Please see post number 2153 which has the timings. Thanks

 

[PizzaKing52]

How many new trains are expected to be out, next Friday?

 

[20atthemagnet]

LST towards Walthamstow in the afternoon and then back in the evening.

Around those times youre looking at

LST to Chingford

1203
1448
1718
1848

Return from Walthamstow

1518
1648
1804
2104

Currently two 8 cars out.

 

[Domk]

My 0853 from Enfield was a 710, nice surprise! Lots of happy faces from pax!

 

[Dstock7080]

710.263 having issues departing Barking pfm.1 this morning, requiring 710.267 to couple up

 

[class717]

710108 and 710121 on the 8:15 LST - Cheshunt this morning

 

[railfanatic]

Let’s hope it’s not the same software that controls the brakes, (or something critical), if that is example of quality of software writing that has been used on train that has been put in public service.

Maybe you should write the software

 

[theblackwatch]

Presumably the two 8-cars out in service are still 710103/105 and 710108/121 and no others in traffic yet?

 

[hwl]

Presumably the two 8-cars out in service are still 710103/105 and 710108/121 and no others in traffic yet?

The plan was meant to be an extra 2 units per week so that would make sense.

 

[theblackwatch]

Perhaps another two from this coming Monday then? Incidentally, before some pedant points out all the 710/2s in traffic, I was referring to the 710/1 fleet in post #2277!

 

[theking]

Doubt the traction training will be continued for the foreseeable future so wouldn't get your Hope's up about more introductions any time soon.

 

[Snow1964]

Doubt the traction training will be continued for the foreseeable future so wouldn't get your Hope's up about more introductions any time soon.

I guess there is a balancing Act, staff might be off, so deferring training is short term easy option, vs cost of having 2 train fleets bit longer.

But depending on how long this goes on, justifying anything beyond routine maintenance on old fleet will over time become a problem, but if staff not trained phasing in new ones also becomes difficult. May even be lease end dates on old stock (who will pay to extend them, if new stock is ready)